Back work in Chins vs Pullups

[PrimalFish]

I know biceps are added more to chins, but it seems to me that the back is worked differently in Chins vs Pullups and this could be important for someone trying to correct forward rounded shoulders or for other reasons. I was wondering if someone could explain the differences.

I think pull-ups lend themselves to a slightly wider grip then Chins and maybe the rear delts and lower/mid traps are worked more? I think lats may actually be worked more in the chin-up with closer grip and longer stretch.

I understand why chins are great and recommended for the novice, but anyone have any idea exactly how to back is worked slightly differently?

[Mark Rippetoe]

You have asked for an explanation for a thing that "seems to you" while providing no reasoning that it is. The only difference between the two movements is forearm supination, which has essentially no effect on the lats -- look at their anatomy, pay attention to the insertion. Grip width is volitional, and that might have an effect on the lats during the chinup. If either variant is performed with a very wide grip, ROM is shortened. Rear delts can be weak shoulder extensors in the chin/pullup or strong incrementally-loaded whatever-you-call-the-motioners in the press, which I assume you are doing. And any trap work performed in the chin/pullup is completely insignificant when compared to that performed in the deadlift, which I also assume you are doing. The absence of the biceps is the only significant difference in the muscle mass utilization between the two movements. As discussed in the book.

[Chris Lippke]

[...] whatever-you-call-the-motioners [...]

Did stef ghostwrite this part?

[Mark Rippetoe]

She doesn't have time for nonsense like this.

[PrimalFish]

Thanks for the answer. This all makes perfect sense.

Kind of a different question...

I feel the starting strength program(s), for me, may be lacking volume in the muscles responsible for pulling the shoulders down and back. I have bad posture I'm trying to correct; my shoulders round up and forwards. I know the deadlift does this, but I wanted to add more volume and reps, and also something with elbow flexion, in an effort to keep it even with the pressing. I was thinking about adding some pronated rows, but I thought pull-ups might be better without stressing the lower back. It seems that the shoulders are internally rotated at the top of the chin-up, but they can be externally rotated at the top of a slightly wider grip pullup. I figured this external rotation would work the rear delts more and really help get the shoulders down and back. I think chins with a slighty wider grip would stress my elbows too much.

But I guess your answer to this would be that the overhead press in fact does everything I'm looking for? I guess I'm just not feeling it, compared to a pulling movement.

What if someone had limited mobility at the top of the press and isn't really getting into the greatest fully extended shrug at the top? Would they not be getting the full benefit of the rear shoulder and mid/lower trap work?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I feel the starting strength program(s), for me, may be lacking volume in the muscles responsible for pulling the shoulders down and back.

I guess you should ignore everything you've read on this board and in the books since 2012, find a cable exercise that works the rear delts without stressing your no-doubt overstressed lower back, and do it for 5 sets of 12. Use 50 pounds.

[PrimalFish]

lolzzz. No, I'm just gonna add pronated pull-ups or barbell rows to my workout, thats it, no big deal.

I already go into the gym on Saturdays and do the following circuit 5 times:

Rear delt flys
Face Pulls
Snatch grip Shrugs
Rear Pec Deck
Prone Y-raises
Rear cable flys (I'll add these...thanks!)

[Mark Rippetoe]

An excellent approach.