Back injury limits squat. Jefferson alternative?

[Woodways UK]

My first post here! Thanks for the approval.
15 years ago a climbing accident created a hard spinal impact leaving a fissure in one discs allowing it to slowly jettison its contents over the following months becoming thinner and dehydrated. Nothing ever herniated though, but now the facet joints in my lumbar area sit closer together and can jam (causing muscle spasm etc) needing a physio / osteopath to release them.


Sadly this dictates to a big degree what I can and can't do. I'm still determined to increase strength, however leg training ends up being the most affected by this injury. I can't do back squats at all, lumbar totally locks up every time. I love front squats, but sadly it also causes similar issues and is not a long term solution.

I was looking for a squat type exercise and found the Jefferson squat/deadlift, where your legs are astride a barbell and one hand behind you and one in front. In a few online videos the torso is strongly twisted. However, I hold the barbell at an angle and keep my torso straight (not sure how to attach pic). I find it a great exercise, nicely quad and glute dominant and it causes me no issues at present, although I worry about the long term dangers to my spine as the weight rises. I've spoken to my osteopath and a few gym friends all who have very different opinions.
Hoping to get some proper advice here.
I have tried lots of other types of squat, none are as easy on my back as this one.

I think this is due to the low centre of gravity of the move. And the weight being directly under my spine.
I can do rackpull deadlift (from below the knee) with no issues, in fact it's helped strengthen my back. Although I keep the weight around 225 as I'm a bit scared to progress beyond it.
I have a strong core and have been working on that for years.
Would appreciate any help and kind hoping Mr Rippetoe himself can weigh in on this.

Thanks in advance folks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

There are perhaps thousands of posts on this board about treating back injuries with barbell training, and several very good articles discussing it in detail. Spend some time reading and get back to us afterward.

[Woodways UK]

Thanks for the reply and hello from the UK. I've read many of the posts about how people have been cured and it does seem brilliant, after all, the deadlift has helped me a lot. I've had coaching at a strength focused gym here in the UK and sadly the back and front squats just cause too many issues. I've stuck at them for some period of time and ended up hobbling around lower back completely locked up again and again.

My question is, are Jefferson squats safe? I don't have any issues with them, and like them and they're more quad dominant, but I am concerned about the asymmetric position of the weight and as it increases weather this could cause any spinal issues?

Here is a link... The jefferson is shown at 3:02

LINK REMOVED

Thanks

[spacediver]

go to the starting strength youtube channel, and look up the following:

will morris
mac ward
darin deaton



That should get you started!

[Mark Rippetoe]

My question is, are Jefferson squats safe? I don't have any issues with them, and like them and they're more quad dominant, but I am concerned about the asymmetric position of the weight and as it increases weather this could cause any spinal issues?

Jeffersons are not squats, as you can see from the fact that the barbell is hanging from your arms. They are an asymmetrical pull, but perfectly safe if you never use enough weight to get stronger. Now, you have some reading to do, and I won't keep you from it.

[Woodways UK]

Thanks... On it right now.

[Will Morris]

Thanks... On it right now.

Your back injury has long since healed. Spasms have nothing to do with facet joints, but letting someone convince you that yuou require manual therapy to "release them" is an effective way to build dependence in the patient and create revenue for yourself as a therapist.

What you described in your initial post is the very definition of an "annular tear", and these heal. Your spasms are caused by shitty form and allowing yourself to go into lumbar flexion. No amount of silly pseudolifts will do as much good for your back as a PROPERLY performed squat or Deadlift. But, in your case, it could very well be that you will never be able to squat or deadlift because you have gone 15 years being scared of your back, and of an injury that basically happens to everyone. Retraining the brain to allow yourself to do something is tricky business brother.

[platypus]

Woodways, if your back problems are making squatting a problem you may want to try a consult with Barbell Medicine.

[Woodways UK]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Very interesting that the mechanical issues shown on an MRI may or may not be the source of pain. The fact that I can rack pull deadlift 225 for 10 reps I guess shows to me it's not the issue I think it is... getting my brain around that is the next battle, especially after so many years of the same 'you're now fragile don't break yourself' soup being fed to me.

Will.. thanks, it seems that after re-watching a few videos and sending them to a friend that knows (he is here on the forums too) that I am graced with shitty form to correct, especially deep in the squat. After a few days watching videos and reading more articles... you know it seems my tight as hell hamstrings and tight inner thigh muscles may well be the cause. I get the butt wink and spinal flexion low in a squat. In an earlier life I was an outdoor instructor & mountain guide, spending quite few years on the mountains with big rucksacks, climbing gear and never once stretched off the leg muscles. Paying for it now, I always feel better after deadlifts, I guess they stretched out the posterior chain and take that tension off my lumbar area for a while.

My facet joints lock a lot, I can often release them myself, but always after doing something silly such throwing my rather small girlfriend in a cattle trough of water, the back goes crazy and the joints lock solid and it's a few session at the osteopath to free them up. Back and front squat give these exact same issues; I've always thought my fragile back was the cause... I see it's likely not.

I'm now embarking on a stretching regime, involving the dead lift again, but lowering the rack over time until I'm lifting from the floor. Plus some static work. My goal is to front squat properly and deep first, but for now I will either use a trap bar to squat with; I await the correction I know I should give myself here: still front squat, but limit the depth for now. Press is another one I've avoided too, for the fear of the bone china spine! However, I still go running and I bet there's a lot more compressive force loaded onto a spine over a 30 min run than there ever would be from 3 x 5 of 150lb. So once the squat is sorted i want to start pressing too.

Thanks again for your input folks, will keep looking, reading etc. Will look up Barbell Medicine.

A friend has invited me to the Facebook group where I can post form check videos. Also, might even look at taking a trip to London to see Mr Raghaven, the UK's only Starting Strength coach.

Will post an update here as things progress! And of course, totally welcome any correction to my above ideas!