That's a pretty good analysis. I cue the triceps when teaching the clean, and I agree with your suggestion that it is a good cue for a alternate-grip deadlift.
Hi Rip
Based on readings from SS:BBT 2nd edition and my own observation about circumstances involving bicep tendon tears during deadlifts I had an idea I wanted to run by you.
When using a mixed grip on deadlifts or when introducing it to a trainee is it a good idea to make a point of locking the elbows, perhaps by actively flexing the triceps, and also making a point of keeping the wrists flat?
When I poked around on youtube all the videos I saw of bicep tendon tears seemed to take place when the lifter bent the elbows and bent the wrist of the supinated hand under the bar, presumably to take a better grip (as seen here and here)
Also, in the assistance exercises chapter you mention that it's not advisable to let the arms completely straighten out at the bottom of a bicep curl as this completely takes the load off the muscle, instead suggesting that a slight bend remain in the arms at the lowest point of the lift.
Based on this, it seems to me that bicep tendon tears are caused by allowing the arm and wrist to bend in a way that loads the bicep tendon with the weight being pulled. Similarly, I remember an anecdote of a strength athlete who blew out a bicep tendon trying to deadlift a car from the fender, presumably with both hands supinated. Basically by bending the wrist and arm they've loaded the bicep tendon the same way it remains loaded at the bottom of a properly performed barbell curl, but with poundages far in excess of what that tendon can safely support.
This is where I got my original conclusion from. By actively locking out the elbows and straightening the wrists when pulling with a mixed grip, wouldn't the lifter be able to make sure that the bicep tendon was not loaded in any way before pulling? I know that such tears aren't a certainty when lifting this way (e.g. Franco's arm in this picture is quite noticably bent and his bicep is bulging if you'll forgive the term) but it seems like a satisfactory coaching cue and explanation. Whenever I've discussed this with other lifters in the gym, or even in the information about mixed grip in the deadlift chapter, everyone is clear on the fact that a tendon tear is a risk but it is not mentioned why this happens or if there is a way it can be prevented, or at least to lower the risk.
Your feedback is appreciated and sorry if I've made errors with anatomical terms.
That's a pretty good analysis. I cue the triceps when teaching the clean, and I agree with your suggestion that it is a good cue for a alternate-grip deadlift.
As someone who uses a mixed grip, I will point out where I think many make a mistake here - they keep their hands too narrow. The knee, which you are jamming out a little bit, can press on the inside of the elbow and prevent you from locking it out (consciously or subconsciously).
And in my case, when I turn my hand over, my elbow rotates inward, so I have to move my hands a bit farther apart than when double-overhanding the bar.
Last edited by Steve Hill; 03-22-2011 at 07:00 AM.
Why not just go with a hook grip - less chance for tears, symmetry (both shoulder and back) and it's just as strong. I use hook grip for my work set and so far I've never missed a deadlift with it. The thumb hurts a lot though but it's manageable.
As someone who uses mixed grip but has never suffered a bicep tear, I thank both Christos and Steve for their contributions. That is one injury I'd like to avoid.
Perhaps you could be more clear.
I find it odd for someone to bend their elbows on a deadlift, that's something that feels extremely uncomfortable to me. I've always just turned my elbows in and I go double overhand until that fails, and then switch to mixed grip.
Yes, there is tendency fore the bicep tension on the supine arm to shove the bar forward on that side, causing a rotation in the pull or other less-than-useful movements. The compensation is a lot of attention paid to pulling the supine hand back during the pull.
Brad Gillingham has pulled close to 900 with a double-overhand hook grip.