The heel and the squat (once more)

[JayvH]

Hello coach,

I have started barbell training last march and have improved it since I read SS 2nd. But I am still unsure concerning the role of the heel in weightlifting shoes. So I will try to devise my questions as good as possible.

1. As I recall everybody who knows something about good squats says that you shouldn't cheat, when you have flexibility issues but work on your flexibility. Alright, why isn't using a heel under your feet cheating? Putting a wedge or small plates under your feet seem to do the job although they are insecure.
2. I found a post on a German board, where the author - a physiotherapist ? explains why it's easier to balance yourself with weightlifting shoes. But than he is describing where he sees the problem and I will try to translate that as good as possible:
   Because of the small feed your knee joint is also moving forward. So the pressure behind the knee caps increases.
   Permanent use of weightlifting shoes and hence increased stress would (after years) result in increased wear in the cartilage behind the knee caps. The quads are more trained but the hamstrings, glutes and lumbar spine musculature is more important for the powerlifter.
   Those muscles are more activated when using flat soles as when using weightlifting shoes.
   The use of heels implies therefore less stress for the back but more stress for the knees.
   I know from reading the book and your postings here that you prefer a heel. You say here that you have discussed that, but I can't find the medical reasons to squat with the heel and why it's not dangerous for my knees.
3. None the less I am pretty sure you know what you're talking about and I am informing myself about weightlifting shoes. You recommend a heel which has a height between 5/8? and 3/4?. I like the Adidas ironwork III shoes and read that you say the shoes are okay (and look cool) but maybe too narrow for some people. My feet are not very wide so I'm pretty sure they would fit. But I couldn't find information about the heel height on the web so I mailed Manfred Nerlinger on www.nerlinger.com who is distributing this shoes in Germany. The height under the ball is 6mm, and 30mm under the heel. The difference is 24mm which is about 0.94? and therefore more then 3/4?. Do you have other informations about the heel height of this shoe?

I hope you can find the time to help me and maybe others with this question about the heels.

[Mark Rippetoe]

There at least 20 posts on this board regarding weightlifting shoes, so I'm not going to repeat myself again. However, this is an interesting passage because it is essentially a series of false statements:

Because of the small feed your knee joint is also moving forward. So the pressure behind the knee caps increases.
Permanent use of weightlifting shoes and hence increased stress would (after years) result in increased wear in the cartilage behind the knee caps. The quads are more trained but the hamstrings, glutes and lumbar spine musculature is more important for the powerlifter.
Those muscles are more activated when using flat soles as when using weightlifting shoes.
The use of heels implies therefore less stress for the back but more stress for the knees.

How is it that when the knee moves forward the pressure behind the patella increases, especially when the hips are moving back at the same time? I have been training for 15 years in weightlifting shoes with a 1" heel and my patellar cartilage is just fine. The quads are only more trained if you don't know how to squat correctly, shoes or not. Likewise, lots of people manage to leave out their posterior chain in Chuck Taylors. And the correct use of "heels" implies that the lifter knows how to squat correctly, thus distributing the stress of the movement evenly across knees, hips, and back, no matter what shoes are worn.

That having been said, I prefer a slightly lower heel for most people because they are easier to pull in. Rogue Fitness has some new lifting shoes with a 1/2"/12.68mm heel, that I just got through squatting and deadlifting in. I recommend them highly.

And why is it that the Germans always seem to sound so authoritative even when they are completely full of shit?

[juicysweet]

The patella's articular cartilage is specifically adapted to bearing high
compressive loads. That's it's job, not a terrible thing to be avoided.

And though osteoarthritis is popularly known as a "wear and tear" disorder, osteoarthritic joints display cartilage damage earliest and to the greatest extent on areas of joints that are loaded the least.

s.

[dirkh]

I think many people believe that weightlifting shoes put more stress on the knees because they see the knees moving forward a bit more than in flat shoes.
It never comes to their mind that one can compensate this with sitting back more, achieving a balanced position which distributes the stress evenly and just looks a bit different.
On the other hand, the knees ARE more forward when using heels, so they are probably stressed a bit more - if you have healthy knees, who cares? It?s the same with high-bar and front squats...

[Kent Berry]

.....Rogue Fitness has some new lifting shoes with a 1/2"/12.68mm heel, that I just got through squatting and deadlifting in. I recommend them highly....

The only shoes I can find for sale on their website are still being spec'd out as having a 0.75" heel. As a beloved icon of strength training, did you get a special sneak preview?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I did. The link will be hot soon, keep checking back.

[JayvH]

First thing: Thanks for the answer, I will spend some money on a good pair of shoes.

There at least 20 posts on this board regarding weightlifting shoes, so I'm not going to repeat myself again.

I read the posts in this Q&A which I got with the search for "heel". And what I got was: you recommend them.

That having been said, I prefer a slightly lower heel for most people because they are easier to pull in. Rogue Fitness has some new lifting shoes with a 1/2"/12.68mm heel, that I just got through squatting and deadlifting in. I recommend them highly.

Well that's cool on one hand, because I find it hard to find shoes which have a smaller height than 3/4" and the exchange rate of the dollar is pretty good at the moment. On the other hand 40$ for shipping to Europe isn't a bargain.

And why is it that the Germans always seem to sound so authoritative even when they are completely full of shit?

Plain and simple: Old habits.
Notes: 1. Get weightlifting shoes. 2. Invade the netherlands.

[quadancer]

I must be a rogue, as I find WalMart's flat bottomed el cheapo perfect for deads AND squats, but I do try to go deep as possible every rep to avoid future redlites. I'd think that tends to properly load the hams as well; they sure feel it later.

[coldfire]

And though osteoarthritis is popularly known as a "wear and tear" disorder, osteoarthritic joints display cartilage damage earliest and to the greatest extent on areas of joints that are loaded the least.

s.

Could you please reference me to the data which supports this claim?

Thanks.

[juicysweet]

A nice place to start is Skeletal Fxn and Form: Mechanobiology of Skeletal Development, Aging and Regulation, Carter & Beaupre, 2001. Many places to follow up on there for specifics that interest you, or search the general lit.