Crossfit Huge strength loss

[beast]

I followed crossfit for 4 weeks, mainpage workouts as rxed except running and pullups. I had done a month of texas method after coming off ss (great success on ss in -one and half month, 6,500 cals a day 1.5 gals milk, 6'4 bw 83 kg 12% to 112kg 18%. Squat 3*5 70kg to 110, bench 3*5 55kg to 80kg and press 55 to 60 all 3*5. Power clean 5*3 55 to 70kg.

Texas method was going as planned 2.5 kg every week to squat and dead, wanted to loose some fat so switched over to crossfit and sorted diet out to paleo, exactly to 3,700 cal a day.
I started to realise my legs were getting skinnier and my chest was shrinking rapidly to leave just bone and fat. At this point id had enough experimenting and thought screw this all i really care about is strength and leanness. So thought id go back to texas with a metcon on sat, thought squat would fallen 5 kg maximum, instead went to put 100kg on bar as a warmup and struggled to do 4 reps. I was pissed now i've got to work back up to 125kg 5*5. I was adding 5 kg a workout to 110 kg stalled there 3 times in a row. Worse than before im guessing its going to take 7 weeks to get back to where I was. What a piece of shit 4 weeks of crossfit and 9 weeks catchup to where I was, to 125kg which is still crap, in 9 weeks I could have added at least 20 kg to squat but sucks, effectively wasted almost 2 months. I feel i didn't really gain any useful fitness from crossfit, although my v02 max may have increased somewhat it means nothing when im getting gassed from work sets of 100kg squats.

Do I need to switch to intermediate programming do you think when I hit previous novice stall points, or do you reckon I will be able to hold the novice stage slightly longer? Also will i need to go back to more of a bulking ie min 4-5,000 cals to get back, i know from layoff its suppose to come back easier? I hope I don?t have to eat that much again otherwise im getting fatter to make where I was before.

I was really looking forward to entering a meet in the 16 old category, before I became 17 now I can?t, it sucks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are shocked and disappointed that when you left a strength/weight gain program for a general conditioning program that you lost strength/weight gain? The interesting thing is that strength is a very persistent adaptation, and had you been training for strength longer this would not have happened. And if you were playing another sport at the time while reducing your calories as you describe, it not terribly surprising that you lost some muscle and strength. Well, now you know. We all have to learn things for ourselves, usually the hard way.

[fluxboy]

I followed crossfit for 4 weeks, mainpage workouts as rxed except running and pullups. I had done a month of texas method after coming off ss (great success on ss in -one and half month, 6,500 cals a day 1.5 gals milk, 6'4 bw 83 kg 12% to 112kg 18%. Squat 3*5 70kg to 110, bench 3*5 55kg to 80kg and press 55 to 60 all 3*5. Power clean 5*3 55 to 70kg.

You put on 64 lbs of bodyweight in six weeks?

That's impressive. Your mom must have freaked out. They generally don't take well to this sort of thing.

Sucks about crossfit, they should have a warning label on it or something. FWIW, I found the same phenomenon happening. The quicker you put on size and strength, the quicker it's lost when you change your focus. Anyway, Rip will likely tell you that at 6'4" you probably need to weigh around 260 lbs (minimum) to get the right sort of leverages for lifting. And given your talent, and age, 300 lbs (136 kg) probably would be a good goal to shoot for before even considering cutting back.

IMHO,
Flux

(1.5 gallons of milk. Hah! I once asked Rip what would happen if anyone had ever doubled his GOMAD suggestions. I guess we now know.

Theory: provided the basic lifting and eating component of SS is covered, your gains are in direct proportion to how much milk you drink.)

[Mark Rippetoe]

Flux caught this, and I should have read more carefully. Troll? Probably.

[fluxboy]

Flux caught this, and I should have read more carefully. Troll? Probably.

Call me gullible, Rip, but I put on 40 lbs over 8 weeks. I think my (butter)milk consumption probably only averaged out to about 3 litres/day.

And I'm an old man, with crummy genetics.

A kid who doubles up on the milk, has some natural talent, and whatnot should be able to blow me out of the water. Let's see, with an increase to 18% bodyfat, he also put on about 25 lbs of fat, leaving about 40 lbs of muscle.

Hm ...

Okay, that does sound a bit like a stretch. And his press only increasing 10 lbs is a bit on the weak side.

No matter.

****

How are you? I am dynamite.

I've been away from the gym for a few months while up north. Ever wonder what happens to a guy who goes cold turkey off SS?

It's actually quite pretty. I'm serious. I look like one of those Calvin Klein models. Don't know how it happened, but I have a devastating beauty now. I know you'd be quite horrified, so tho' it pains me so, I won't post any pics. However, I've been experimenting this last week with doing, like, nutty squat extendo-sets and I really like the result. Have you much experience with doing squats with light weight (say 1/4 to 1/3 your max) for 3-5 minutes straight?

The legs really seem to blow up awesome-like. I was going to stick with my beloved SS routine, but threw in one of these mad hatter sets at the end. The legs really took well to it, in a pained sorta way.

I think I may be onto someting.

I have a pact with Stu that once I hit 300 lbs we're both gonna go drinking, brawling, and flipping subcompacts. Not as a general lifestyle, of course, but just for an evening or two. I figure at the very least, we should be able to put a Smart car on it's roof without too much trouble.



Wanna tag along?

Now, before anyone thinks ill of us, this is actually conduct motivated by our love of humanity, a higher morality, and ... stuff. Consider the following study:

A study commissioned by the ultra-exclusive British insurer Hiscox proves beyond all doubt that supercars turn women on, and econo-cars just don?t.

David Moxon subjected 40 men and women to the sounds of a Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and a Volkswagen Polo then measured the amount of testosterone in their saliva (a measure of arousal). He found everyone had higher levels of the stuff, especially women, after hearing the first three revving supercars. As for the VW Polo? Everyone had less testosterone after listening to it.

So really, this is about saving mankind. And it also suggests the car you drive may well be the limiting factor in your squat.

Something to chew on.

Best,
Flux

[OITW]

The OP may have been referring to his overall gains since starting SS, not just his short period on the Texas Method, and just phrased it unclearly.

However, many of us turned to SS after discovering via Crossfit just how weak we really were. If strength is such persistent adaptation, how can so much strength be lost so fast, as in the OP's description? You say that if he had weight trained longer, this wouldn't have happened. How long would one normally have to do the weight training to ensure that most of the gains are persistent? What percentage of gains should we expect to maintain if returning to Crossfit? We expect to lose weight coming off SS, through change of diet if nothing else, but we expect to maintain most of the strength. I've been wondering if that's a false expectation, and would appreciate some clarity here.

[beast]

Im not a troll I started doing SS properly after doing stronglifts in novemeber. Weighed 85 kg and after 6 weeks thinking of it maybe 8 max weeks weighed 113 however between got a bad sick bug and didnt eat nothing for 3/4 days and lost 6kg so that made my weight gain slightly bigger, but definantly in a short time. My diet at the time consisted of

2 sliced of toast and 5 fried eggs and 2 pints of milk and an apple

Break time -off to the newsagent near school, 4 pints of milk ( i got good at drinking this in under 5 mins)

Lunch- Down to the shop for a blt sandwich and bought a 4 pint milk bottle and would drink half and some more in the later afternoon.

Post workout - 3 bannanas and fruits, 2 pints of milk

Dinner meat and something like peas or spinach

Block of cheese or snack on pistacios or something

Glass of milk before bed

No bullshit i honestly ate this if not more but this is all i can remember. A while I posted something up with my stats and weight and you said the best thing i could do was gain more weight at my height.

Fluxboy you're right about about my parents, at one point they kept on going mental about the milk saying it was going to kill me. They were trying take me the doctor because of course he knows best. Also now they believe any minute now im going to die of skin cancer due to stretch marks on arms and back. I paid for the milk with savings however, but one on reasons i went on a diet was because of their pressure about my food intake- they started banning me to 3 eggs a day and stuff.

I was slightly fooled by crossfit, my deadlift went up and press stayed fairly constant, so i presumed my squat would improve and bench. Also looking back the month of february the workouts included very little if no dips or such for chest, maybe that why as well.

At least i know now in the far future if i do crossfit again but with much more strength work like gants hybrid or strength bias.

Thanks

[Mark Rippetoe]

However, many of us turned to SS after discovering via Crossfit just how weak we really were. If strength is such persistent adaptation, how can so much strength be lost so fast, as in the OP's description? You say that if he had weight trained longer, this wouldn't have happened. How long would one normally have to do the weight training to ensure that most of the gains are persistent? What percentage of gains should we expect to maintain if returning to Crossfit? We expect to lose weight coming off SS, through change of diet if nothing else, but we expect to maintain most of the strength. I've been wondering if that's a false expectation, and would appreciate some clarity here.

Kelly Starrett's example is typical, as related in the CFJ article about CFSB. The OP is 16 years old, so how long do you think he could have been training? It may very well have something to do with his age, the fact that he's only been training a short while, that he was perhaps squatting high (he did not list his deadlift for squat-scaling purposes), that his dietary reductions were too drastic, that he didn't sleep or recover as well. I may have been harsh calling him a troll, but that is a lot of weight to gain in a short period of time, and of the 29kg he gained, 10kg was bodyfat. I am proud of his appetite. But a more mature individual gaining 19kg LBM over a longer period of time would have stayed stronger, longer. And I think this is the experience of most people, so it's not a false expectation. Unfortunately, clarity is in short supply on the internet.

[fluxboy]

I am proud of his appetite. But a more mature individual gaining 19kg LBM over a longer period of time would have stayed stronger, longer. And I think this is the experience of most people, so it's not a false expectation. Unfortunately, clarity is in short supply on the internet.

So as not to be confused on this, are you stating that 16 year old Beast drank too much milk, ate too much, and over-bulked?

Who are you, and what have you done with Rip?

Beast, good on you. Sorry to hear about your experiences with Crossfit, I had my suspicions about that outfit. I Just checked out some of their routines again. Here's Murph:

For time:
1 mile Run
100 Pull-ups
200 Push-ups
300 Squats
1 mile Run

Hey, it's probably the best thing under the sun for fat Americans. I know if I did that, however, I'd waste away to about 165 lbs (6'4"). This is pretty much a fact 'cause when I used to do Muay Thai, that's exactly what happened to me. And the conditioning looked frightfully similar.

Hell, I lost five pounds just looking at that routine.

Damn.

While on this topic, if any of you stocky, athletic types find yourself recommending Crossfit to lean, sparsely muscled cats ... please don't. Nothing good will come of it. It's like recommending Pilates for Haitian refugees. They need calories, heavy weights, and relaxation. Not something that will get them bouncing around like ADD bunnies on meth.

No offence.

IMHO,
Flux

(ps And Beast, tell your mom to feed you more. And to help her through this difficult transition period, inform her that she is to address you as "Beast" now. That should work out swell.)

[beast]

Sorry I don't want to waste your time anymore

I think I've learnt many lessons now,

Do strength work consistently
Don't eat as much on the texas method as ss otherwise will get overly fat
But also don't cut calories too drastically.

I must have to forgot to list my deadlift in my stress out when writing the first post, it has always been my best lift by far. (i have extremely long arms- less distance to pull I presume, not good for presses though). Was 1*5 147.5 at end of ss and tested 1 rm after month and bit of texas 182.5kg (no straps just good ole chalk, i honestly can't believe how i managed without chalk at first). My squat has always been deep if not too deep somtimes.

Funnily enough this was the only lift along with pullups that i improves on crossfit, i pr'd 5kg during crossfit- that annoyed me deadlift up so i presumed squat up but instead was down.

Also looking back back my weight gain does look dubious, but i looked back at my training log and realised in the first 2 weeks gained 11 kg probably because I used to weigh 95 kg (what i call my natural weight - i wasnt too fat or skinny just average) however during the early autumn and late summer, suddenly felt fat i went fuckin crazy on running 1hour a day 6 times a week plus 1hour walking, i was basically anorexic. I ate hardly ate anything no fat, little protein (protein like meat had fat so couldn't eat it.) I thought i was doing a good thing, i had been brainwahed by the government into that shit. So my weight rockected up really quickly those first weeks, then added around 3 kg a week and then 2-1 kg the final weeks.

Oh yeah fluxboy you were my inspiration in that 57 days of ss, that was what moved me to do ss instead of gym bb crap.

Thanks