Another macro question

[jwhal]

Hi Jordan,

First, thank you for giving up your time and hosting this sub-forum. I think it's a great addition to an already solid site. I was hesitant in posting this because you’ve already answered a shit-ton of these annoying questions. But I’m stuck. I'll try to keep it short and will accept any abuse.

Male, 5'7", 33, 173 lbs, 22% BF +/- (Navy BF calc), desk job, no conditioning, running SS Novice. Dropped a good 15-20 lbs doing Carb Nite between Oct-Dec. I tried drinking the CBL Kool-aid after CN, but after 4-5 weeks of no change on the scale and measurements, I figured I wasn’t doing it right. Without a knowledgeable suggestion I will likely just turn into a fat(ter) guy again.

Current lifts are as follows, in pounds
Squat: 215 - Actually failed at this weight last session, embarrassing, I know..
Deadlift: 225
Press: 102.5
Bench: 155
Power clean: 100
No conditioning other than shoveling snow and dragging the kids in the sleds. Lifts were a tiny bit higher last summer, but I slightly tweaked my back squatting (probably didn’t eat enough) and my interests changed to mountain biking (bought a sweet new ride). The lifts are now heavy-to-me, with the squat being the lift I struggle with the most. I would like to hit 1/2/3/4 plates on the lifts (p/b/s/d). Not a competitive athlete.

I realise my stall is likely due to food, and I need to grow, and thus eat in order to progress. I just don’t want to get fat(ter). I understand that at my bodyfat, my body has an easier time adding fat versus muscle. I’m happy to stay at my current BF% if it means getting stronger. Losing more of the spare tire would be a bonus though.

For macro’s, I generally aimed for 170 / 0-340 (off/training) / 170 of p / c / f while dicking around with CBL.

What macro's, if you’re willing, would be best suited for a unique snowflake such as I?
Is this where Rip’s suggestion of the 3500 cal's/day of low-carb Paleo comes in?
Is cycling nutrients worthwhile?
Is nutrient timing (ultra-low-carb in the AM with carb refeed in the PM/PWO) for a novice worthwhile? I like the idea of having an ultra-low-carb portion of the day with carb refeeds post-training/in the evening. I haven't had the ten or two o'clock downer in three months, which helps with the job (design-work) and I find it helps with overall adherence. However, if it impedes progress, I have no problem not doing this.
I typically skip breakfast, mostly out of convenience (two kids), but add coconut oil to a coffee around the 12-14 hr mark. I can easily put down cal’s in a meal when necessary, but I want to make sure it’s the right amount of the right stuff. Again, if this is counter-productive, I’ll start eating breakfast again.

Any other suggestions or feedback welcomed, but I realise you’re busy.

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to look at this and offer any advice.

Thanks,

Jon

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Jon,

I think you should post a form check up just to make everything is everything. You'd be surprised at what some little tweaks can do. That being said, I think a bit of a recomp and change in programming is needed to get things going. I'd switch to advanced novice or similar to see if a bit of extra recovery on the squat doesn't help. But let's get back to the nutrition stuff....

Macros: 250, 200, 55 (4x a week) and then 230, 360, 50 (on training days).

Is this where Rip’s suggestion of the 3500 cal's/day of low-carb Paleo comes in?

Yes. I make somewhat similar recommendations in an un-weighed/measured way. Just eat 50g of protein 5x a day, veggies at all meals, starches only pre and post workout.

Is cycling nutrients worthwhile?

In my opinion, yes.

Is nutrient timing (ultra-low-carb in the AM with carb refeed in the PM/PWO) for a novice worthwhile?

I don't think there's any benefit to this except for compliance. You could do it this way and follow the aforementioned nutritional advice.

[jwhal]

I had a reply typed out, then lost it. Crap.

Thank you very much for the response.

A couple quick questions:
-Is there any benefit to include a PWO shake of whey isolate, leucine and creatine mono?
-Is there any benefit to using whey to hit the protein macro's? I will eat real food, but the whey would definitely make it easier. Talking maybe one additional shake in the AM, not several.
-Would it make sense for me to deload a few lbs (squat)?
-Conditioning a no-go? Not looking to do any, just wanted to make sure.

I actually looked up the advanced novice routine yesterday morning, out of sheer frustration, wondering if it was time or not. It's reassuring to hear it from an actual coach.

I will try to get a form-check-worthy video up. I've never posted one in the past because the room I lift in is about 7'x10' on a good day (entry way to the house), and it's very difficult to get a good shot (oh how I've tried). I'll do my best though. The wife just joined a new Crossfit box down the street. Maybe I could test the coach's knowledge in the lifts.

I will implement this strategy immediately.

Thanks again,

Jon

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

-Is there any benefit to include a PWO shake of whey isolate, leucine and creatine mono?

Too many variables here. Compared to what? If you're comparing to a meal (with good lean protein) + leucine + creatine then no. If you're comparing it to just a meal sans leucine and creatine, then yes. Probably not noticeably so at this point, however.

-Is there any benefit to using whey to hit the protein macro's? I will eat real food, but the whey would definitely make it easier. Talking maybe one additional shake in the AM, not several.

Loaded question. I could argue that the additional leucine load might yield an uptick in protein synthesis AND that universally, it's much easier to hit protein macros with a powder than real food. On the other hand, I don't think you'd see a noticeable difference between 5 protein-rich (animal based) meals vs. 5 protein shake based meals. Do whichever one is easier for you.

-Would it make sense for me to deload a few lbs (squat)?

I'd repeat the last successful workout on day 1. Go 70-80% of that on day 2, then add 5lbs from day 1 on day 3.

Conditioning a no-go? Not looking to do any, just wanted to make sure.

Get your squat moving first, and then think about adding a HIIT day on day 3 after everything else.

Maybe I could test the coach's knowledge in the lifts.

Report back on this. I've become increasingly disappointed in other coaches ability to actually "coach" the lifts. I know a guy who coaches the Olympic lifts via Skype and has his lifter start with the bar IN FRONT OF THEIR TOES....no joke. Can't believe people pay for that.

[jwhal]

Too many variables here. Compared to what? If you're comparing to a meal (with good lean protein) + leucine + creatine then no. If you're comparing it to just a meal sans leucine and creatine, then yes. Probably not noticeably so at this point, however.

Loaded question. I could argue that the additional leucine load might yield an uptick in protein synthesis AND that universally, it's much easier to hit protein macros with a powder than real food. On the other hand, I don't think you'd see a noticeable difference between 5 protein-rich (animal based) meals vs. 5 protein shake based meals. Do whichever one is easier for you.

I only asked because

a) I have the supplements already (Go CBL!). They may as well be used up, and
b) Convenience of hitting protein numbers using a powder. The suggested fat intake is much lower than what I've been stuffing my pie-hole with lately, so I need to start buying and preparing better, leaner meats. My typical two to three meals/day + PWO shake + one more throughout the day (whey only if need be) would be easier to manage vs. five meals/day. That said, I'm in no position to debate with you. I'll experiment with it.

I'd repeat the last successful workout on day 1. Go 70-80% of that on day 2, then add 5lbs from day 1 on day 3.

Perfect. Will do.

Get your squat moving first, and then think about adding a HIIT day on day 3 after everything else.

I'm far more concerned with getting the numbers up at this point.

Report back on this. I've become increasingly disappointed in other coaches ability to actually "coach" the lifts. I know a guy who coaches the Olympic lifts via Skype and has his lifter start with the bar IN FRONT OF THEIR TOES....no joke. Can't believe people pay for that.

I've been polling the wife on how detailed he is with regards to coaching/form correction before I bother to approach him. She's new to Crossfit and anything barbell related and says he actually does coach/cue/correct them. Whether it's right or not....

Again, thank you!

Jon

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

b) Convenience of hitting protein numbers using a powder. The suggested fat intake is much lower than what I've been stuffing my pie-hole with lately, so I need to start buying and preparing better, leaner meats.

That's one of the biggest reasons I like shakes. You'll be good my friend.

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