Quad weakness?

[Dan F.]

Hi Rip,

a 48 years old woman friend of mine, a little overweight, can't do a full squat with a broomstick, apparently for weakness in quads (she has flexibility in hamstrings and other muscles more than me!).

Doing back squats she has a tendency to lean too much forward with shoulder/trunk without lowering the butt enough (a sort of good morning): she says quads don't permit her to go down. Is it plausible?

If so, what kind of exercise she has to do to reinforce them before starting SS? No leg press and machines, she trains at home.
I was thinking of lunges or step-ups on a chair. She has also a cyclette.
Or better starting anyway with (partial) back squats?

[Mark Rippetoe]

It's quite likely that she's correct. I have trained many overweight women who could not do a bodyweight squat, and they are the only reason I kept my leg press machine, because it's very handy for producing a linear increase in leg strength up to the point at which squats can be done. In the absence of a leg press, she'll have to do increasingly deep bodyweight squats starting at the depth she can manage. The problem with this is quantifying the depth and making sure it increases a little each workout. You'll have to keep careful watch over this to assure an increasing range of motion as she progresses, or she will not progress.

The sad fact is that fat women usually are not disciplined enough to train for any length of time (this is why they are fat), so the question is probably moot.

[Robert Callahan]

What about having her do box squats? and progressivly lowering the height of the box. So you have her start with a box that is right at the height she can air squat to comfortably, then progressivly lower the height so she has to get more and more depth each workout. then when proper depth is achieved you remove the box all together. This way you can quantify the improvement and allow her to build a good foundation for the movement

-Robert

[banderbe]

The sad fact is that fat women usually are not disciplined enough to train for any length of time (this is why they are fat), so the question is probably moot.

Gotta disagree on that one. I know fat women personally who have achieved a great deal professionally, and climbed the corporate ladder so to speak with stunning agility. I have talked to one in particular about her weight, and she told me "I hate exercising".

[Dan F.]

It's quite likely that she's correct. I have trained many overweight women who could not do a bodyweight squat, and they are the only reason I kept my leg press machine, because it's very handy for producing a linear increase in leg strength up to the point at which squats can be done. In the absence of a leg press, she'll have to do increasingly deep bodyweight squats starting at the depth she can manage. The problem with this is quantifying the depth and making sure it increases a little each workout. You'll have to keep careful watch over this to assure an increasing range of motion as she progresses, or she will not progress.

The sad fact is that fat women usually are not disciplined enough to train for any length of time (this is why they are fat), so the question is probably moot.

Thanks coach!

I think you're right about discipline but a broomstick could have many uses...

In the meantime she increases depth in BW squats has she to go up with weight in other lifts? It seems to me she has pretty good form in presses (bench and overhead).

[JMT]

Outside of the bed bound 800 pounders you see on TV, it never occured to me that there might be people who can't do a body weight squat. I mean, how would such a person get out of a chair if it didn't have arms? How do you get up after you take a shit?

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Rip, I couldn't agree more with your final statement.

Dan F.
If it helps any, plyo boxes of varying heights are helpful for people who cannot do a regular bodyweight squats. I have had many trainees who I started out with bodyweight box squats. Slowly reduce the height of the box until they are at or below parallel, then take the box away. 9 times out of 10 this does the trick. With really fat weak people this may be a fairly slow progression. You may find yourself stacking plates on the boxes and then removing one plate at a time to get her to proper depth. This helps with the problem of quantifying squat depth that Rip was talking about.

Sample progression for a fat lady:

Workout 1 - Squat to 18 inch box
Workout 2 - Squat to 12 inch box with 2 45 lb plates
Workout 3 - Squat to 12 inch box with 1 45 lb plate
workout 4 - squat to 12 inch box
workout 5 - squat to dynamax medicine ball (tap the ball but do not deweight)
workout 6 - air squat to proper depth
workout 7 - squat with light bar/broomstick, etc

Progression may not occur as quickly as I have laid out here, but you get the picture.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Banderbe seems able to differentiate between physical and intellectual/industrial laziness. Perhaps we should too. On the other hand, "I hate exercising" can be interpreted only one way, so I think you have to say that the fat girl is at least physically lazy. It is good that she has come to grips with the effects of her policies and located a dressmaker that can decorate her for the trip up that corporate ladder.

[cmdrfunk]

Gotta disagree on that one. I know fat women personally who have achieved a great deal professionally, and climbed the corporate ladder so to speak with stunning agility. I have talked to one in particular about her weight, and she told me "I hate exercising".

Yeah and that's why she's not disciplined. She can't make herself do something that's good for her or keep from doing something that's bad for her just because it's the right thing to do rather than what she WANTS to do (like excel professionally).

[Dan F.]

Thanks everybody for answers! I'll try with the box squat trick.