The squat imbalance - force the correct pattern consciously or just move the bar up?

[astrbac]

Hello everybody,

I have a simple question regarding squatting with an injury and various imbalances. Since I am located in Europe and I can't get to the US to see an SS coach yet (plan to do so as soon as possible) I am working with "the book" and videos by myself. This time I am committed to not f*king up the program so a few very short stats:

• broken and fixed left femoral condyle (10 years ago, posteriorly, osteoar. present, CMP present)
• various imbalances due to "brain wanting to save the injured knee" (right leg being used more, left ASIS rotated anteriorly, right shoulder lower, ...)

While I squat in front of the mirror I can clearly observe the following:

• my left (injured) knee moves more forward than the right one (=> looses tension of the posterior chain, the left side of the pelvis rotates towards the right)
• various other imbalances present due to "brain wanting to save the injured knee" (I feel the right leg being used more, left ASIS looks rotated anteriorly, right shoulder sits lower, ...)
• before the descent I can clearly see that one end of the barbell is closer to the floor, meaning it is not parallel to the ground

The short question:
Should I disregard the weight itself, maybe just use the bar and focus on voluntarily fixing the movement pattern (by forcing the problem knee back, etc.)
OR
is the correct approach to move away from the mirror, do the program as written and let the body sub-consiously fix the movement?

Many thanks for all replies!
Alex

[Tom Campitelli]

Get away from the mirror. Let's see a video of your squat. When you say "CMP present," do you mean chondromalacia patellae?

Here is the likely fix. You may be asymmetrical. Working hard to move as symmetrically as possible in the squat (and other lifts) will help, but perhaps not render you completely symmetrical. Embrace your imperfect joint angles and get as strong as you can.

[astrbac]

Hello coach Campitelli,

thank you for your reply, much appreciated! Yes, CMP is chondromalacia patellae unfortunately. I will try as hard as possible to follow your advice - not look in the mirror, not think about all the angles, joint positions, etc. but rather "drive the butt" and finish the move.

Two more questions if I may:

1. the darn knee hurts just at the TOP of the squat, while DESCENDING
- if I stand on this injured leg and break at the knee first, it hurts like hell
- from there on to the bottom of the range and back I'm fine

Any tips here?

2. I love Ripp's cue "drive your butt" but I find that at the top I tend to "finish with a goodmorning" (use my low back)
- I fix this if I cue myself with "squeeze the but" and drive through with my hips

Is this reasonable?

[astrbac]

Hi all,

as per coach Campitelli's advice, related to this thread of mine, I am posting a video of my measly 130 squat. That is all I can do for now as my knee hurt like hell last time, but I have been steadily adding 10 lb per workout. I hope to get back to my PR of 220 pretty soon.

YouTube video

Any tips appreciated!


P.S. A couple of years ago I posted deadlift form check but accidentally removed the video from YouTube. Unfortunately I cannot get it back so please, could the moderators delete my thread here and not count this as Strike 1 and remove all my future form check threads. Much obliged!

[astrbac]

Just posted the Squat form thread as you requested . Waiting for the moderators to approve it, hope you can take a look and that the video is ok. Cheers!

[Tom Campitelli]

Your stance may be a hair wide, but I am not sure of that. I am sure that you are in spinal overextension, you are going too slowly, and you need to get deeper. The good news is there is nothing wrong with you, at least from a squatting standpoint. My recommendations: stop arching your back so much. Just stand up normally and get tight. Descend more quickly and come up more quickly. Avoiding arching the hell out of your back will help with this. Go deeper.

As for your knee pain, let's see what happens as you add weight and get stronger. It may subside. If it gets worse, then we'll need to figure something else out. You can try rolling on a ball of some sort to see if self-massage does anything. Don't be surprised if it is not wildly effective. You are not doing a good morning. Nothing even close to it. Don't worry about such things.

[astrbac]

Coach Campitelli,

I don't know if my reply got through since I didn't get a "Post is held for moderation" message.

Thank you for your time to evaluate my squat! Long story short:

- as per SS program my squat is now at 154 lb (70kg) which I couldn't do yesterday, I did 3x3 @154 and to add a bit more I did 1x5x143 Lb (65kg)
- knee pain is almost completely gone (!)
- some back pain present; not the "disc kind"; I know the disc kind of pain

Depth - could maybe squeeze a bit more but my knee flexion is limited. I was a pu*** when it was time to rehabilitate so I lost a few degrees of flexion; I don't think I can get that back after 10 years?
Width - I'll try to narrow it a bit

Back - I read on this board and watched a dr. Stu McGill video where he demonstrated how people compensate above the site of their injury (overextending and/or locking different parts of their back in order to protect injured low back). Maybe this is what I am subconsciously doing? I have certain pain in my back, more toward left, in the area of upper posterior iliac spine (deep inside). This pain is more evident the second day after my workout. Who knows, could be spine, quadratus lumborum or some other muscle in the area working too hard, SI joint, ...

I have decided to push forward with the SS no matter what. I don't know what to do with the squat, push a bit more to increase weight or switch to Texas Method?

Many thanks once again!

[Tom Campitelli]

Everyone's back hurts, whether they train or not. You are going to feel a lot better when you are squatting 140 kg for 3x5. At that point, Dr. McGill's discussions of back injuries will seem quaint. You will understand that you MAKE yourself heal and you MAKE your back strong. You may still hurt from time to time, but you will understand how to manage it and train around it. You have no business being on the TM until your squat is up around 140 to 150 kg for reps.

[astrbac]

Hello coach!

Short update - you were (as usual) right. I had no business messing around with the programs and should have evaluated other aspects of my training first.

First of all, I wasn't eating enough. I thought I was but honestly, 4500 kcal is A LOT of food and I wasn't anywhere close to it. Now I am stuffing pizza, burgers, bags of mayo, steaks, you name it. Keeping it around 4500-5000 and still slow growth (I now weigh 90kg so that is 3 kg up in about a month). Aim is at least a 100.

Second of all three - Sleep. Since I have a dayjob and my own company it's a bit problematic. Working on that one, if Feigenbaum can do his residency, doctorate, training clients then I can do this.

The last point - Mental barrier. This one is tough. The heavier I go, the more I lean towards right (healthy leg) and more I have to consciously "switch on" the left (injured) leg.

I managed to get my squat up to 72.5kg 3x5, which in my case is almost a PR (85kg x1). However, 75 I just cannot do. 3 reps, third one stalled midway but I forced myself to complete it even if it killed me.

Honestly, I cannot fathom how someone lifts a 100, 150.

Any tips what to do? Rest a couple of days and try again? Keep pushing the same weight workout after workout?

Many thanks!

P.S. When I descend, the left side of the bar (injured one) gets considerably closer to the ground then the right one. Disregard this and press on?

[Tom Campitelli]

You do not need to weigh 100 kg to squat 75 kg. Something else is going on here. Either you have some kind of health problem, or you do not understand what it is to produce force under the bar. I have a woman I train who is 39 years old and weighs 52 kg. She squatted 130 kg in a meet about two weeks ago. She does not have the testosterone flowing through her veins that you do. You can do so more than you think you can right now. I am not there to coach you, but what you are experiencing is not normal.