New guy has blasphemes question. :)

[rykertest]

I may be the only guy on here that is happy with where my strength levels are, and don't feel the need to get any stronger right now. WHAT?! I can just hear it now, "You can always get stronger!". I know but with my job in the fire service, strength is but one aspect of a very important physical conditioning make up. In my line of work, being able to lift mountains means little if you can only carry it 3 feet. I have been doing the ss program and I do LOVE it, but the added weight (read fat) that I am putting on while required at the time I started, is now becoming too much and my conditioning/endurance has suffered. I know diet is part of that, but the calories needed to keep progressing in strength are becoming a burden. I am about to turn 36 and losing bf is becoming MUCH harder than is used to be. I don't care about being "ripped" but I do care about being too fat.

I have used the search function to try and find an acceptable way to meld ss and cardio together, and it seems the choices are to not do ss (which I want to do), or risk overtraining. I HATE to change a program, especially one like ss because then what is the point of doing it at all, but I must adapt.

I have a concept 2 rower at home that I would like to use more and am really trying to find a way to still do ss (even if it is a skeleton form of ss) and use that rower more than once a week. I have come across a rowing program that is 3 days a week and is 5000m each time. It is 24 weeks long. I am very concerned that attempting to blend ss and this type of program is a recipe for overtraining or injury is it not? Am I just wasting my time only doing ss twice a week and just focusing on the core excercises like squat, bench, dead and ohp?

If this question has been answered elsewhere and my searching did not reveal it then please accept my apologies and direct me towards that thread. If you have any advice on how I can progress towards my goal, it is much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help!

[Tom Campitelli]

If you truly are as strong as you would like to be, then I would imagine you could pretty easily drop to one or two days of lifting and start incorporating conditioning work in there. Look to things like CrossFit and CrossFit Football to get some ideas for what to do on your non-lifting days. I would probably bias the conditioning work to the shorter end of the spectrum (less than 15 or 20 minutes). Also, check out things like the Max Effort Black Box template from Mike Rutherford. Do a lift, then follow it with a short, intense conditioning workout.

[rykertest]

If you truly are as strong as you would like to be, then I would imagine you could pretty easily drop to one or two days of lifting and start incorporating conditioning work in there. Look to things like CrossFit and CrossFit Football to get some ideas for what to do on your non-lifting days. I would probably bias the conditioning work to the shorter end of the spectrum (less than 15 or 20 minutes). Also, check out things like the Max Effort Black Box template from Mike Rutherford. Do a lift, then follow it with a short, intense conditioning workout.

Hi Tom and thank you for the reply. I would like to get stronger in the future, but just brute strength is not at the top of my list of needs. What I want to do has to take a back seat now to what I need to do and that is increase my endurance. I know full well I will lose some strength, but it will allow me to do my job better and thats the key for me.

I work with some guys who have been lifting heavy oly for years, and they are beasts. They showed me ss and It is the best strength program hands down. The problem is that the guys I work with when on a fire, run out of gas fast with any sort of lasting hard work. It's now where they bust the front door down and thats all they are good for lol. I don't want to be that.

I have considered taking a break from ss all together and just rowing for this 24 week program and then returning to ss, but I don't think that would be wise long term. Not being an expert on this stuff, I am torn between the ss advocates that say it is priority and the rowing advocates that while they like ss, say rowing should be the priority. I know it depends on what you want, and I want (need) both and there in lies the rub. How can I get both without overtraining or changing one so much I'm not really doing it anymore?

I was going to do a simplified version of ss 2 days a week where workout A was squats and bench. and workout B was deads and ohp. Row 3 days a week and have 2 resting days broekn up there inbetween the lifts and rows.

Is there anything wrong with that idea or are there any flaws with it? Thank you again for your reply.

[gzt]

I may be the only guy on here that is happy with where my strength levels are, and don't feel the need to get any stronger right now. WHAT?! I can just hear it now, "You can always get stronger!". I know but with my job in the fire service, strength is but one aspect of a very important physical conditioning make up. In my line of work, being able to lift mountains means little if you can only carry it 3 feet. I have been doing the ss program and I do LOVE it, but the added weight (read fat) that I am putting on while required at the time I started, is now becoming too much and my conditioning/endurance has suffered. I know diet is part of that, but the calories needed to keep progressing in strength are becoming a burden. I am about to turn 36 and losing bf is becoming MUCH harder than is used to be. I don't care about being "ripped" but I do care about being too fat.

I have used the search function to try and find an acceptable way to meld ss and cardio together, and it seems the choices are to not do ss (which I want to do), or risk overtraining. I HATE to change a program, especially one like ss because then what is the point of doing it at all, but I must adapt.

I have a concept 2 rower at home that I would like to use more and am really trying to find a way to still do ss (even if it is a skeleton form of ss) and use that rower more than once a week. I have come across a rowing program that is 3 days a week and is 5000m each time. It is 24 weeks long. I am very concerned that attempting to blend ss and this type of program is a recipe for overtraining or injury is it not? Am I just wasting my time only doing ss twice a week and just focusing on the core excercises like squat, bench, dead and ohp?

If this question has been answered elsewhere and my searching did not reveal it then please accept my apologies and direct me towards that thread. If you have any advice on how I can progress towards my goal, it is much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help!

Lyle McDonald and Matt Perryman have good ideas on their web-logs about maintaining strength while losing fat. The basic idea is that you cut down volume but maintain intensity on your lifts. That is to say, do fewer sets/reps, but still work at a high percentage of your 1RM. I haven't reviewed their stuff in a while since I am not completely interested in doing that at the moment, that will be your homework, but IIRC, the answer may not be cardio. Also, I might suggest that, given the demands of your job, some "strongman" type training may be more applicable than rowing 5K, but I could be wrong since I'm not a firefighter myself (where the type of strongman stuff is the moving heavy stuff for distance and time type rather than the throwing/lifting heavy things type). ie increased work capacity rather than aerobic endurance. Bias the training accordingly. One thing you have to be careful not to do is increasing volume and cutting calories simultaneously, which is what a lot of people do when they start adding cardio and trying to lose weight. That's just stressful and will cause some sort of crash.

But, I guess, one important thing to figure out is what your lifts are at now. I mean, if your squat is in the 300s and you're near the end of the novice progression, the answers may be different from somebody who only did 4 weeks of the program and is in the 200s.

[Alex Bond]

CFWF program is perfect for you. Basically:

Mon: Squat, Press, Chins
Tues: Power Clean, conditioning
Thurs: Squat, Bench, Chins
Fri: Deadlift, conditioning

For conditioning, do something that will get you conditioned but not seriously impact recovery - 10 minutes on a C2 rower for example. For the lifts, do 3 sets of 5 (except 5 of 3 for PC and 1 of 5 for DL) and make linear progress in them as you would in SS. I know several people who have had a lot of success with this.

[gzt]

One thing to think about is what your goal is. There are several things you're thinking about right now and you need to think about priorities and what, concretely, you want your future to look like. You should figure out what order you prioritize these four things you seem to mention in your posts:
1. Maintain strength.
2. Lose fat.
3. Develop muscular endurance.
4. Develop aerobic endurance.
Am I leaving anything out? You might not be able to get all four quite simultaneously, depending on how far advanced you are, your recovery abilities, and other stuff. But you can certainly tackle several at once and periodize this stuff. Things get easier if you're a little flexible - like deciding to maintain levels of fat for a while (quantify this), or deciding you're okay with losing a little strength (quantify this). Quantify all your goals, decide on time frames, and then look to see if they are realistic.

[rykertest]

Lyle McDonald and Matt Perryman have good ideas on their web-logs about maintaining strength while losing fat. The basic idea is that you cut down volume but maintain intensity on your lifts. That is to say, do fewer sets/reps, but still work at a high percentage of your 1RM. I haven't reviewed their stuff in a while since I am not completely interested in doing that at the moment, that will be your homework, but IIRC, the answer may not be cardio. Also, I might suggest that, given the demands of your job, some "strongman" type training may be more applicable than rowing 5K, but I could be wrong since I'm not a firefighter myself (where the type of strongman stuff is the moving heavy stuff for distance and time type rather than the throwing/lifting heavy things type). ie increased work capacity rather than aerobic endurance. Bias the training accordingly. One thing you have to be careful not to do is increasing volume and cutting calories simultaneously, which is what a lot of people do when they start adding cardio and trying to lose weight. That's just stressful and will cause some sort of crash.

But, I guess, one important thing to figure out is what your lifts are at now. I mean, if your squat is in the 300s and you're near the end of the novice progression, the answers may be different from somebody who only did 4 weeks of the program and is in the 200s.

GZT, thank you for the reply and I will look up the two guys you mentioned to get their view on this issue.

The idea of cutting back on the volume had been on my mind and I had "decided" that doing 2 sets of everything (1 of deads) was a good move for me. The intensity level will of course need to be maintained. If I shifted my priority to the rowing, would that still be too much and would I need to reduce it to 1 set? I wonder if just 1 set would be a waste of time or would that allow me to at least maintain most of my strength?

You make a valid point about the caloric reduction and the timing of such. I have made that mistake before and must be careful not to repeat it.

The increase in work capacity is important and why I gravitated towards the concept 2 rower; it's a truth machine I have learned. lol I will look at other types of programs that are more strongman/crossfit types as well.

Thank you for your advice.

[rykertest]

One thing to think about is what your goal is. There are several things you're thinking about right now and you need to think about priorities and what, concretely, you want your future to look like. You should figure out what order you prioritize these four things you seem to mention in your posts:
1. Maintain strength.
2. Lose fat.
3. Develop muscular endurance.
4. Develop aerobic endurance.
Am I leaving anything out? You might not be able to get all four quite simultaneously, depending on how far advanced you are, your recovery abilities, and other stuff. But you can certainly tackle several at once and periodize this stuff. Things get easier if you're a little flexible - like deciding to maintain levels of fat for a while (quantify this), or deciding you're okay with losing a little strength (quantify this). Quantify all your goals, decide on time frames, and then look to see if they are realistic.

Excellent post. If I were to arrange those 4 bullets in the order that I want, it would be modified as such.

1) Develop Muscular Endurance
2) Develop Aerobic Endurance while maintaining strength
3) Lost bf (not nessicarly weight)
4) Get stronger or at least maintain strength.

Number 3 can happen if diet is in check when accomplishing number 1 and 2 I beleive. I do think though that the first 2 should take top billing in my current situation. Some bf is fine, and I don't expect to have a 6 pack, I could really care less. However, the lack of a 6 pack doesn't mean I accept the presence of a gut and thats whats developing. A happy medium is all.

Very helpful posts, this is helping me think this out well.

[rykertest]

CFWF program is perfect for you. Basically:

Mon: Squat, Press, Chins
Tues: Power Clean, conditioning
Thurs: Squat, Bench, Chins
Fri: Deadlift, conditioning

For conditioning, do something that will get you conditioned but not seriously impact recovery - 10 minutes on a C2 rower for example. For the lifts, do 3 sets of 5 (except 5 of 3 for PC and 1 of 5 for DL) and make linear progress in them as you would in SS. I know several people who have had a lot of success with this.

That is an interesting program but what does CFWF stand for. I've seen that on crossfit somewhere I think correct?

Thank you for the reply.

[texron]

Matt Wiggins at working class fitness has a program called doubles and singles where you essentially take a high percentage of your max(70-90) and do multiple singles and doubles with it while decreaing your rest time each workout, from one minute down to 20 seconds, then add more weight...my buddy got in awesome shape while maintaining MOST of his strength. Some decent MMA fighters use the program.... Just a thought