Barbell complexes

[ambivalens]

I've started adding some barbell complexes to my routine for conditioning and to get some barbell work in at different speeds. Also simply trying to spend more time under the bar, as Dan John puts it.

My usual complex is a 5 set 3 rep thing going much like this:
Row, Power Clean, Press, Back Squat, Good Morning, RDL

That stuff gets me winded like a little girl trying to catch the bus.

And now, good people, on to the question: for progression with these complexes, would you add a rep each week, or increase the weight and stick with 3 reps? I've been working with a weight at around 50 kg (125 lbs I think).

Any and all feedback welcomed - except telling me I'm a pussy for some reason or other, I'm usually aware.

[OCG]

Dan John usually does 3x8 for complexes. Add weight, in a sane fashion, after correcting your rep range.

[ambivalens]

Dan John usually does 3x8 for complexes. Add weight, in a sane fashion, after correcting your rep range.

Quoting Dan John from the article "Rebuild yourself with complexes" (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...th_complexes): "You can play with any rep variations you like, but I've found that eights and threes are the best."

As such, I thought I'd start at 3 and work my way up as I'm not the best conditioned individual. Perhaps an approach where I build up to sets of 8, and then start manipulating the weight I move?

[OCG]

3x3 is for a warmup. Start at eight.

[ryderuveze]

3x3 is for a warmup. Start at eight.

From the article:

I like sets of three for adding mass to my athletes...

You can play with any rep variations you like, but I've found that eights and threes are the best. If you do five sets of eight, you probably won't be doing much more in this workout. Three sets of three make an excellent pre-lift warm-up or, with heavier weights, can be used as a strength and mass building workout.

As far as progression, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the complexes. If you're going for mass/strength stick with 3s and up the weight. For conditioning, up the reps. I've used John's complexes on my conditioning days (Saturdays) when I didn't feel like going to the pool. I do Row, PC, Front Squat, Push Press, RDL. I think GMs and RDLs in the same complex is kind of redundant, but to each his own.

[ambivalens]

As far as progression, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the complexes. If you're going for mass/strength stick with 3s and up the weight. For conditioning, up the reps. I've used John's complexes on my conditioning days (Saturdays) when I didn't feel like going to the pool. I do Row, PC, Front Squat, Push Press, RDL. I think GMs and RDLs in the same complex is kind of redundant, but to each his own.

Makes sense, but at the same time, I was winded like a total MF after those 5 sets at 3 reps. Would it be "better conditioning" to lower the weight and up the reps? I imagine it'd produce the same windedness, but perhaps better conditioning because it'd take longer to complete the 5 sets?

[OCG]

If you're going for mass/strength stick with 3s and up the weight.

No. If your press triple is heavy enough to make your squat go up, something is wrong with you. Not to mention the idea of handing what for you are heavy weights whilst deliberately fatiguing yourself.

[Shion]

I do them for conditioning, and my BB complexes look like this. All at 6 reps:

Deadlifts
Rows
Hang cleans
Front squat
Press
Back Squat
Goodmornings

Each cycle is about two minutes long, and I rest 90 seconds in between cycles. I try to go for 5 cycles each time, and if I want to progress in these then I add weight. 75lbs is more than enough to get me dying on these.

[ryderuveze]

No. If your press triple is heavy enough to make your squat go up, something is wrong with you. Not to mention the idea of handing what for you are heavy weights whilst deliberately fatiguing yourself.

I don't think DJ is talking about using these as a way to improve individual lifts, I think he means strength as a whole while you're fatigued, but the weight discrepancy is why I went with front squats and push presses. I'm not going to get into an internet debate with you, do them or don't do them as you see fit, but I'm gonna listen to Dan John on programming.

Makes sense, but at the same time, I was winded like a total MF after those 5 sets at 3 reps. Would it be "better conditioning" to lower the weight and up the reps? I imagine it'd produce the same windedness, but perhaps better conditioning because it'd take longer to complete the 5 sets?

I'm not an expert, I've performed these a handful of times (6 or 7 or so) so your YMMV. You can lower your weight to get in the 8 reps or work yourself up at the current weight. For me I first worked the reps up at 135. The rubber weights at my gym go down in circumference as they get lighter, making the Row and PC a pain in the ass at lighter weights, though if I was smarter I would've realized hang cleans would've worked. Since you're doing these as conditioning you have room to experiment, figure out what works best for you.