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Thread: Every Gear Is Beautiful...In Its Own Way

  1. #1

    Default Every Gear Is Beautiful...In Its Own Way

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    You should probably add gear as you get stronger.

    I was going to post on this anyway, but the response of some piss ant weakling to my the thread on belts really sent me over the edge.

    Everything is "gear": proper shoes, neoprene knee sleeves, belt, suits, shirts...it's all "gear"...but that's okay.

    When you get under a heavy barbell, you are performing an act that would never have occurred in "nature." You are engaging in congress with an artifact of industrial civilization. If you're bothering to put a barbell on your shoulders, don't think you're somehow purer because you eschew man-made polymers on your knees, hips or shoulders.

    Here is the ugly truth...

    A belt will help you get stronger faster when you hit 1.5-2x bodyweight (or 1-1.5xbodyweight for women).

    Some knee protection in the form of sleeves or light wraps start to make sense around that time too.

    A light squat suit or light bench shirt will actually help you as well as you get stronger.

    A lot of internet "all raw bra!!!" jockeys will balk at that, but they probably aren't that strong and you probably shouldn't listen to them.

    Barbell training is the best, most efficacious way to get stronger, but it ain't "natural".

    Even proper benching, squatting and pulling subjects your body to forces it really wasn't designed to encounter, particularly when you start getting past piss ant weight.

    There is nothing wrong with utilizing other industrial artifacts like sleeves, wraps, suits and shirts to protect your joints and make lifting more productive AND to get you stronger faster.

    Please ignore morons who act like there's something mystical about using a barbell to the exclusion of supportive gear. Light gear allows you to use heavier weight which will cause faster adaptation.

    "But my joints will get strong if I just expose them to the stress without support."

    Absolutely true when you are weak. As you get stronger than average, some protection and support makes more and more sense.

    Yes, people get strong without ever touching belts, wraps, sleeves, suits and shirts. But those people are probably much more suited to lifting than you are.

    There is no shame in not being among the genetic elite with their superhuman joints. A little protective gear will allow you to train harder and longer and get stronger faster than just training totally raw because of some deluded sense of lifting purity.

    This thread will probably fill up with the protest of barbell-only folk. I hope you don't listen to them. Odds are you don't need a light squat suit or bench shit yet, but you could probably use proper squat shoes with a slight heel or a good powerlifting belt. If you stick with it, a light bench shirt or squat suit would help too.

    (The extreme multi-ply and canvas stuff is for specialists and they change the performance of the lift. That stuff is for very strong people and concern what is essentially a different sport and I'm not talking about them in this post.)

    If you're struggling with a 315 SQ at under 200 lbs, then you could use a belt, but not a squat suit. Things change as you get stronger and it disgusts me to see people squatting under 315 and mocking belt usage and people squatting under 600 who mock the use of even light squat suits.

    I used to be a weak piss ant who mocked powerlifters in general and gear in particular. Now I understand how incredibly strong powerlifting strength specialists really are and why they use gear. If you have your doubts, you're probably not nearly as strong as they are. Again, I used to be like you, but now I know better.

    If you can't squat at least 600, then you don't need any gear beyond a belt and you're not really entitled to an opinion about it. If you squat under 400, then you probably need to invest in a belt and a decent pair of squat shoes; get stronger before you masturbate over relatively weak Oly types squatting 400-500 lbs in their undies, THEN form an opinion.

  2. #2
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    Here's a question...at what point should you start wearing a belt to bench press? I notice (on youtube) that really strong benchers all wear belts. If you should wear a belt when your squat is 1.5-2x your bodyweight, what would you say is the cutoff for the bench press?

  3. #3
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    You should write the words barbell before every mention of strength. That way it's clear that any gear you can use while using a barbell is to optimise strength training for barbell work. And no one will dispute that for barbell training such aids are beneficial for sports dealing with barbells.

    I think the problem is when you talk about strength it seems you mean generally and then people will argue with you because their interest in strength is not necessarily in the biggest squat or deadlift but perhaps strength in a general sense. The way rip trains novices not to be powerlifters or olympic lifters but to become generally stronger, that kind of strength. A lot of people have no interest in competitive barbell training and for them such aids are not so attractive. They're after a general kind of strength not just ones prowess in the gym. So my point is, people have different goals, why get worked up about it? The guy training to become generally stronger for his non-barbell sport or job will not care about certain gear that facilitates heavier weights with the barbell.
    Last edited by msingh; 12-06-2009 at 03:33 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by knox View Post
    Here's a question...at what point should you start wearing a belt to bench press? I notice (on youtube) that really strong benchers all wear belts. If you should wear a belt when your squat is 1.5-2x your bodyweight, what would you say is the cutoff for the bench press?
    I usually wear a belt from the first warmup set to the end. Belt really functions mostly as a way to fortify your arch, which is a good thing if you arch.
    I've both benched 180 kg with and without wrist wraps and belt while wearing a loose shirt, and the difference really is that you'll feel a lot better when you're wearing a belt and wrist wraps. They don't really help you to get more kilos, but make the weight more "bearable".
    As for the use of equipment, Gary is right. When the weights get heavier and heavier in bench for example, it's a pretty good idea to wear a loose shirt. Heavier weights don't hurt my shoulders and you're still getting quite a workout, and your raw bench will go up simultaneously with your shirted bench. When I first used a shirt my raw bench was 130kg and I was doing 150 with a loose shirt. When I hit 180kg with the same shirt my raw bench had gotten up to 150kg without training it at all, all I was doing was shirted bench and floor presses with chains. These numbers might seem high but I'm built for benching, for longer armed guys the extra kilos out of a loose shirt aren't as high.

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    And how would having a 400lb squat and 500lb deadlift not make you stronger outside the gym than a guy who can only squat 200 or so with a deadlift of only 300?

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    Quote Originally Posted by confuzzl3don3 View Post
    And how would having a 400lb squat and 500lb deadlift not make you stronger outside the gym than a guy who can only squat 200 or so with a deadlift of only 300?
    The guy with the bigger squat would be stronger than the other one if neither of them had picked up a barbell. What does this tell you? Strong people are strong, and weak people are weak. You can increase your relative strength with barbells by taking up barbell training though, but it has no effect on an absolute level. Strong guys are strong even if they've never train with weights, and if they did, they'd be able to put up freaky numbers. Weak guys might work up to decent number through years of training but it doesnt make them strong on an absolute level -- a naturally strong untrained guy would still kick their ass in almost all general tests of strength except the specific ones where homeboy is trained and adapted for, and the naturally strong guy is not.

    tldr: strength or weakness from training with barbells does not necessarily translate outside the gym; in both directions.
    Last edited by msingh; 12-06-2009 at 03:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msingh View Post
    Strong people are strong, and weak people are weak. You can increase your relative strength with barbells by taking up barbell training though, but it has no effect on an absolute level. Strong guys are strong even if they've never train with weights, and if they did, they'd be able to put up freaky numbers. Weak guys might work up to decent number through years of training but it doesnt make them strong on an absolute level -- a naturally strong untrained guy would still kick their ass in almost all things that matter involving strength.
    What is this garbage? Do you hear what you're saying? Yes, strong people are strong and weak people are weak. But if a weak guy brings his squat up to 500lbs with years of training, he's not a weak guy anymore, he's a strong guy. Your logic is quite flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by msingh View Post
    tldr: strength or weakness from training with barbells does not necessarily translate outside the gym; in both directions
    Jesus fucking christ. If the strength from training with barbells doesn't translate outside of the gym, why would we waste our time doing it? Try posting this drivel in Rip's forum and see how long it takes him to tear you a new asshole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knox View Post
    What is this garbage? Do you hear what you're saying? Yes, strong people are strong and weak people are weak. But if a weak guy brings his squat up to 500lbs with years of training, he's not a weak guy anymore, he's a strong guy. Your logic is quite flawed.
    No wait. Consult the tables. A squat of 500 lb at a reasonable body weight is elite, a weak guy most probably wont ever attain that level no matter what he does in the gym. Realistically only a strong guy would attain a 500lb squat, so he was probably never weak to begin with. This stuff is genetic. A guy can train all day but he might never jump any higher than before went to all the trouble. Yes ripp guys will tell you that strength is 'the most fundamental quality' -- and it's true, but barbell strength != general strength. Even ripp will tell you that no matter where you take your powerclean or squat you wont jump any higher. So certain things are fixed by our genes, like athletic ability.


    Jesus fucking christ. If the strength from training with barbells doesn't translate outside of the gym, why would we waste our time doing it? Try posting this drivel in Rip's forum and see how long it takes him to tear you a new asshole.
    It can translate, the amount of which depends on what you do in the gym and what you do outside the gym. Guys get much bigger while lifting weights which can help them in their sport. Guys get stronger at lifting things which can help them in their sport. Guys can use the barbell to address weaknesses, and all sorts of things. Many guys train from vanity or insecurity. There are a million different reasons why people do it. It doesnt follow that just because many people do something that it achieves the goal they think they're trying to achieve. Witness the millions of people 'training' in gyms around the country, thinking they're getting stronger by doing leg curls and standing tricep kickbacks. That's no argument. There are guys like wrestlers who've never trained with a barbell that would nevertheless kick your ass in an arm wrestle even if you squatted 4 plates yesterday.

    Curling the whole stack at the gym might make joe golds feel strong while squatting 4 plates might make bob wichita feel strong, but a guy who is naturally strong could kick both of their asses in many things involving strength. That's just how it is. A guy might struggle benching the bar and still express maximal strength at opening a nut in an engine easier than a guy who can bench 5 times as much. I've seen this in real life.
    Last edited by msingh; 12-06-2009 at 04:44 AM.

  9. #9
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    msingh, where's the log post of your 12/4 workout? Did you train on 12/4? In fact, have you trained AT ALL since you started your log?

    GTFO and go train. You do know that interwebz trolling is not part of novice programming, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by msingh View Post
    The guy with the bigger squat would be stronger than the other one if neither of them had picked up a barbell. What does this tell you? Strong people are strong, and weak people are weak. You can increase your relative strength with barbells by taking up barbell training though, but it has no effect on an absolute level. Strong guys are strong even if they've never train with weights, and if they did, they'd be able to put up freaky numbers. Weak guys might work up to decent number through years of training but it doesnt make them strong on an absolute level -- a naturally strong untrained guy would still kick their ass in almost all general tests of strength except the specific ones where homeboy is trained and adapted for, and the naturally strong guy is not.

    tldr: strength or weakness from training with barbells does not necessarily translate outside the gym; in both directions.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by msingh View Post
    No wait. Consult the tables. A squat of 500 lb at a reasonable body weight is elite, a weak guy most probably wont ever attain that level no matter what he does in the gym. Realistically only a strong guy would attain a 500lb squat, so he was probably never weak to begin with. This stuff is genetic. A guy can train all day but he might never jump any higher than before went to all the trouble. Yes ripp guys will tell you that strength is 'the most fundamental quality' -- and it's true, but barbell strength != general strength. Even ripp will tell you that no matter where you take your powerclean or squat you wont jump any higher. So certain things are fixed by our genes, like athletic ability.




    It can translate, the amount of which depends on what you do in the gym and what you do outside the gym. Guys get much bigger while lifting weights which can help them in their sport. Guys get stronger at lifting things which can help them in their sport. Guys can use the barbell to address weaknesses, and all sorts of things. Many guys train from vanity or insecurity. There are a million different reasons why people do it. It doesnt follow that just because many people do something that it achieves the goal they think they're trying to achieve. Witness the millions of people 'training' in gyms around the country, thinking they're getting stronger by doing leg curls and standing tricep kickbacks. That's no argument. There are guys like wrestlers who've never trained with a barbell that would nevertheless kick your ass in an arm wrestle even if you squatted 4 plates yesterday.

    Curling the whole stack at the gym might make joe golds feel strong while squatting 4 plates might make bob wichita feel strong, but a guy who is naturally strong could kick both of their asses in many things involving strength. That's just how it is. A guy might struggle benching the bar and still express maximal strength at opening a nut in an engine easier than a guy who can bench 5 times as much. I've seen this in real life.
    Singh,

    You are clearly stronger and more athletic than I am with my four plates. That I am half your bodyweight with triple your squat merely reflects my unnatural obsession with barbell training. That I can jump twice as high as you can is merely a corollary of the same reason my dick is twice as long and thick as yours, i.e. I'm black and it's all purely genetic.

    Good luck with your training.

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