Do I have Hip Drive?

[Dastardly]

Hello there,

Ive been lifting for a year and learned to squat using Rip's methodology. I watched all the 'hip drive' videos on youtube and tried my best to do the same. After I overcame flexibilty hurdles in the beginning I have since been fairly confident that my form was solid.

However my squat has been stalled now for a while, a major deload to about 70% has not helped. My struggle to push through wall combined with re-reading some Rippetoe material emphasising hip drive has made me start doubting my form.

When I see videos of hip drive demonstration, the lifters hips clearly pivot upwards as they come out of the hole. The hip drive seems to be related to a conscious pivotting of the hips. From what I can make out, this is supposed to pull at the hamstring on the hip end creating more overall tension. So you have the cumalative forces of the hip pulling away/upwards and the hamstring contracting to pull opposing this.

The problem is I cannot get my hips to do this. No matter how hard I try to drive & lead with hips they do not pivot backwards/upwards. What happens is that my legs straighten first pushing my whole torso & hips together backwards.

I just wanted to know if my form and efforts to maintain lower back tightness seem sufficient? I am trying as hard as possible even when warming up with empty bar or doing air squats. But it can never get the hip pivot/strongly arched lower back.

Empty Bar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh0BCaj2qeo

60kg Warm Up Set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NOxEQr0j4M

87kg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqbWhRx3hnE

90kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8FwPqnHBg

90kg Back View (not a good position I realise)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Wj3m2C9Qo

[Mike O.]

Dastardly,

I think your low back is set fine. It looks like the backward motion of your hips at the top is what is causing you to miss the hamstring stretch at the bottom, because your knees are moving forward slightly throughout the entire descent. Try coming straight down from the top, breaking hips and knees at the same time, then push your hips back after the knees are set forward just past the toes. That should fix it.

Mike

[Hollis]

Your warmup sets are too fast. You have a weird hip pop at the top of the bar reps. There's no way you can be getting the Valsalva and tight midsection at the top of those reps. Your warmup should look like your work sets in all areas, otherwise the tightness required for you're work weight is a surprise every time.

Your feet look like they could be angled out a bit more.

Depth and back looks good.

The second rep of 87k, I see chest lift out of the bottom instead of following through on the hip drive. Same on back video. You seem to be giving up on the hip drive and lifting your chest out of the bottom for the rest of the vids.

It looks like the bar position could be lower on the back. For me, correcting bar placement, making back more horizontal, improved hip drive.

[Nauticus]

Edit: Nevermind. False diagnosis - I watched it a few more times and I don't really see what I was originally talking about

[gman]

I looked at the 90kg work set (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8FwPqnHBg and think part of the problem is that you are not keeping your chest up during the ascent. If you look at your upper back, it looks like it is rounding as you drive up, which will kill your hip drive. If you look at your hips and chest at as you come out of the bottom, especially in the 3rd rep, you can see that your hips rise faster than your chest.

Keep your chest up, back and midsection tight as you come up out of the hole.

[Dastardly]

I looked at the 90kg work set (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8FwPqnHBg and think part of the problem is that you are not keeping your chest up during the ascent. If you look at your upper back, it looks like it is rounding as you drive up, which will kill your hip drive. If you look at your hips and chest at as you come out of the bottom, especially in the 3rd rep, you can see that your hips rise faster than your chest.

Keep your chest up, back and midsection tight as you come up out of the hole.

But thats basically my problem, the harder to try to create hip drive, all I manage is to get hips to rise a bit faster than chest by legs straightening out while my torso is still leaning forward.

[Dastardly]

Your warmup sets are too fast. You have a weird hip pop at the top of the bar reps. There's no way you can be getting the Valsalva and tight midsection at the top of those reps. Your warmup should look like your work sets in all areas, otherwise the tightness required for you're work weight is a surprise every time.

Your feet look like they could be angled out a bit more.

Depth and back looks good.

The hip pop at the top is just me trying to finish the squat as by contracting glutes and standing tall as possible. Reading stuff by Eric Cressey/Mike Robertson it seems that this is quite strongly recommended to maximise the activation & functional role of the glutes. It looks a bit kooky unweighted I realise!

I start my warm up with slow controlled bodyweight squats with exaggerated knee width to stretch groin/adductors. When I move to empty bar, I do them fast to get some blood pumping/raise temp and to get some bounce/dynamic stretch going.

My feet are both pretty wide and angled out, I used to often think it was excessively so as Ive never seen anyone else put them this wide! I think my foot position is spot on though as I tend to angle out as much as possible where I can still get knees tracking over feet.

Ill try and get a video the next time im at the gym to get your opinion. But there is limited things to balance my phone on!

[confuzzl3don3]

But thats basically my problem, the harder to try to create hip drive, all I manage is to get hips to rise a bit faster than chest by legs straightening out while my torso is still leaning forward.

The thing is hip drive involves pushing up from the hips however a back angle still needs ot be maintained. Rip said that a slight change in back angle with hips rising faster than the chest is fine, but too much is bad and leads to a good morning. Maybe you could do with the chest up cue or the one i like using which i picked up from Gary and someone else (pardon my memory) about pushing the traps up into the bar to maintain the back angle. Just my thoughts

[Dastardly]

Dastardly,

I think your low back is set fine. It looks like the backward motion of your hips at the top is what is causing you to miss the hamstring stretch at the bottom, because your knees are moving forward slightly throughout the entire descent. Try coming straight down from the top, breaking hips and knees at the same time, then push your hips back after the knees are set forward just past the toes. That should fix it.

Mike

I really really really hope this is true. It would be amazing to have such a simple form fix after struggling for months.

Ive got into the habit of 'sitting back' right from the beginning of learning as it seemed to be so strongly emphasised for low bar squats. The idea is so imprinted in me that ive never been able to bring myself to go straight down. Even though I remember this being mentioned to me before.

Mobility drills ive been doing recently like floor squat stretches (check 7.30) and wall squats also emphasise the vertical shin/maximum sit-back form. So it just seems like such a bizzarre idea to go straight down. I am struggling to imagine how it will feel!

I am definetely going to try next time, but im sure its going to be extremely challenging initiating this new alien motion.

[Dastardly]

The thing is hip drive involves pushing up from the hips however a back angle still needs ot be maintained. Rip said that a slight change in back angle with hips rising faster than the chest is fine, but too much is bad and leads to a good morning. Maybe you could do with the chest up cue or the one i like using which i picked up from Gary and someone else (pardon my memory) about pushing the traps up into the bar to maintain the back angle. Just my thoughts

I can maintain back angle just fine. The examples where you see hips rising first is where I am consciously doing it in an attempt to create some visible hip drive. I basically find it impossible to get low back tight enough to pull hips upwards/away from hamstrings. At best I can keep it in a kind of neutral position.