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Thread: 20 rep squat after advanced novice program

  1. #1
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    Default 20 rep squat after advanced novice program

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    In the 4 months of SS (before I had done SL 5x5 for 4 months) my squat went from 215x5x3 to 265x5x3, DL from 260x5 to 325x5, bench from 145x5x3 to 175x5x3, press from 90x5x3 to 125x5x3, and bodyweight from 170 to 190.

    I have been on advanced novice and last week I stalled on my lifts for the third time. I really don't want to switch to intermediate programing yet because then I am accepting slow gains and I feel my lifts are weak relative to my experience (4-8 months depending on the program).

    Since the 10 days or so since I stalled for the third time, I have been doing dumb bell circuits outside, sprinting, and just running around enjoying the spring weather. I was thinking of cutting weight while enjoying the outside for the next 6 weeks and then getting back to the program (and eating for it again), and work my way back through my sticking points before switching to TM. In the mean time I don't want to abandon BBT completely but can't keep doing heavy sets while loosing weight. I was thinking about doing 20 rep squats twice a week.

    I don't plan on 20 rep squats getting me much stronger while trying to cut some weight, but figured since it is high reps it is a program I could try out for 4-6 weeks until I switch back to the strength program.

    I just wanted to see if doing 20 rep squats would fuck me up when switching back to the adv novice program. When I switch back to the adv novice program I want to be able to bust through my stalling points at a bodyweight equal to or less than what I weighed when I stalled.

    Messing around w 20 rep squats for a few weeks won't screw up my gains once I get back on the adv novice program will it?

    Thanks for input and advice.

  2. #2
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    im going to try and not sound like a dick.

    i have done some research into the 20rep program. some people differ in opinion about doing it 2x a week with 5lb jumps or 1x a week with 10lb jumps. but the thing everyone says about either version is that it is very fucking hard. its a high volume program that adds 200lbs of volume a week crammed into one long set. to me it sounds a lot harder than toughing out linear progression for a very long time.
    as for nutrition... im sure that for your body to recover from such a massive overload, you would have to be eating quite a bit. possibly more than required to make 5lb jumps twice a week on 3x5.

    doesnt sound to me like a good "cutting" program

  3. #3
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    Everyone's goals are not the same, but you only put on 20 pounds of bodyweight in 4 months. This might have something to do with your stall. You probably need to eat more if you want to see those numbers go higher. Everyone wants to squat 400 lbs at a bodyweight of 170, but for most mortals that is not going to happen. You will get stronger as your muscles get bigger. Cutting weight is usually a bad idea if you want to get stronger.

  4. #4
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    I reckon you should sample the 20 rep squat before you buy it, so to speak. Get your true 10RM, based on your 1RM and then do that for twenty. Then once that's done you'll be in a good position to judge whether or not you want to do it once or twice a week,... Or not at all

    I'd say you got a pretty big pair of balls if you can do it twice a week

  5. #5
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    If you want to lose weight without losing strength, drop volume, not intensity. 20 rep squats are high volume, not high intensity. They're much better for gaining mass. But, seriously, you weight 190 with a squat of 265, I think you're not really done here unless you're a woman or 5' tall. Odds are you're so pathologically afraid of gaining weight that you came nowhere near your potential at SS. Anyway. The Texas Method is probably better for losing fat without losing muscle or much strength, but keep in mind that while you're losing weight you probably can't push strength gains much, if at all, and the volume day may need to be trimmed back if you're having issue with recovery.
    Last edited by gzt; 03-24-2010 at 06:30 AM.

  6. #6
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    What is your age/sex/height? Barring some very large physiological difference between you and the rest of the human populace, it looks as if you have a ways to go before exhausting your linear gains. What is your diet and recovery (sleep, stress, etc) like?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krump View Post
    I want to be able to bust through my stalling points at a bodyweight equal to or less than what I weighed when I stalled.
    As was mentioned above, this might not be possible. How tall are you? BW of 190 lbs might not be that much if you are 5'8"+

  8. #8
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    I appreciate the responses and advise so far.

    So it seems a better alternative to maintain strength while loosing weight would be to do low volume, high intensity like one set of 5 on all exercises instead of 3x5, right? After reading your responses it seems this would be the best way to go and if I do anything else I am an idiot but I am afraid the allure of 20 rep squats is just too great for me to resist and since I am off the program while loosing weight, I now have an opportunity to do some sort of BBT that is not the program.

    I want to assure you that I am not loosing perspective of the long-term objective of getting bigger and stronger, but the fact of the matter is since it isn't dismal fucking winter anymore I want to be out outside, sprint, hike, do punishing circuits and enjoy the weather. Once I loose a little weight I am going back to novice progression for as long as I can milk it before switching to TM. I am just wanting to utilize these next 4-6 weeks as a buffer between resetting and switching to TM.

    I gave 20 rep squats a couple trial runs earlier this week @ 185 and 190 and really enjoyed it, thats why I wanted to do it for the next 4-6 weeks while loosing weight. I used to be an ultra runner (weighed 155 at 6 feet) before quiting distance running due to IT band issues, taking up BBT and putting on 35 pounds in 8 months. So because of my ultra running background I am a certified masochist, that is why I wanted to try out 20 rep squats (and yes, it felt like torture - my kind of thing).

    I appreciate your responses, I really considered them while decided what to do but ultimately decided to dick around w 20 rep squats for 4-6 weeks while trying to loose weight which is completely the wrong thing to do. At least now I know what I'm choosing to do is not ideal but I am going to fucking enjoy it anyway.

    Thanks and feel free to continue commenting. If it is condemning enough I may stop and "get back on the program ASAP".

    I think I will start a 20 rep log so you guys can likely see me document my burnout from the volume while on a calorie deficit -tragic hubris at it's finest.
    Last edited by Krump; 03-24-2010 at 02:31 PM.

  9. #9
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    Y'know, do whatever you want and whatever makes you happy. At 6', you'll be much better off closer to 220 than closer to 180, frankly. But, whatevs.
    Top tips for maintaining strength:
    *Low volume, high intensity on weights. This may even require 2x per week instead of 3. See how recovery goes.
    *Low volume, high intensity on running.
    *Caloric deficit means recovery suffers. Keep this in mind.
    *Don't increase total amount of exercise at the same time as decreasing diet. This leads to crashing. Modify variables slowly.

    But, seriously, you need to gain 30 more pounds as fast as you can (which is faster than your current rate). You don't squat nearly enough weight yet. Eat a lot, drink tons of milk, go running occasionally because it's nice out and you like it. Because of the high volume of running you were probably used to when training for ultras, you can probably get away with doing a few miles a couple times per week and still hit your strength increases. But, seriously, 5K calories per day until you can do that easily, then 6K calories per day until you're at least over 200#. You can totally get to 315 on the squat as a novice like this. I know you probably won't take my advice to get to 220, but you'll be more awesome if you did.

    But, at the end of the day, you'll do whatever you want. Just train regularly and report back how it goes for you. This doesn't sound like a recipe for injury and it could be interesting info, so I won't tell you it's stupid.
    Last edited by gzt; 03-24-2010 at 03:07 PM.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    I guess I just don't understand how you could be 6' 190 and want to LOSE weight.

    You said that your lifts are "weak relative to my experience (4-8 months depending on the program)." You aren't eating enough. Gaining 30 pounds will alleviate that. You're not an ultra runner anymore.

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