Program advice please

[ColoWayno]

I know some of you guys like analyzing stuff like this... bless you and thanks.
I'd appreciate any ideas and/or comments you may have on holding my weight as a constant while improving conditioning and staying pretty strong.

Age 47, Weight 200 (dressed)
Training history: basically 1 year on SS (went from 160lbs to 175)
9 months on TM (went to about 190)
I just went back to regular SS and simple progression for about 6 weeks and that's where I'm at now.
I had a little brush with over training on the last round of linear progression, but I'm recovering pretty quickly and have decided to switch to 5-3-1 for the remainder of my deployment (12 more weeks!).
5-3-1 starts with a deload, but I'd like to have my lifts back to where they were or beyond by the time I leave and improve my conditioning quite a bit. I'd like to keep my weight where it is for now. This is partly due to the fact that I can't stand to keep eating tons of the food they serve here. I try to choke down as much dried out meat as I can but there's only so much I can take. I have whey and I take that twice a day (50g each). I take two containers out for breakfast. One for 4 eggs, sausage and oatmeal, the other for fresh fruit and cheese. I turn that into two morning meals. After lunch I have a shake and nuts, then dinner and another shake before I go to bed. After workouts I also eat a Cliff bar for some quick carbs. I get veggies with lunch and dinner and usually drink about 24 oz of milk in the AM.
I wanted to do conditioning 3x per week, 1 barbell complex session, 1 run (working up to 2-3 miles @9 minute pace), and maybe 1 day of hill sprints. I need ideas on conditioning routines. I need to work power cleans in as accessories and/or part of conditioning because I want to improve them quite a bit.
I may drop 5-3-1 down to three or even two days a week, depending on how things are going, as I ramp up the conditioning stuff.

My 1RM's are (approx)
Squat 330lbs,
Deadlift 350lbs,
Bench 240lbs,
Press 140lbs

[Greg C]

Here's something I've been toying with, mixing into a TM with some conditioning - It's kind of long, so I apologize up front. I have nowhere near your experience, but seem to have some of the same interests. I'd say based on your comments, that you might be able to use a 3-1,2-1 (work-rest) rotation like below to fit in your desires.

Su (Volume) - BS/SP/DL
M - Short Conditioning
T (Light) - BS/BP/Short
W - Rest
Th (Heavy) - BS/SP/PC
Fri - Long Conditioning
Sa - Rest

Su (Volume) - BS/BP/Short
M - Medium
T(Light) - BS/SP/DL
W - Rest
Th (Heavy) - BS/BP/Medium
Fri - Medium
Sa - Rest

Su (Volume) - BS/SP/PC
M - Medium
T (Light) - BS/BP/Short
W - Rest
Th (Heavy) - BS/SP/DL
Fri - run/row 5k
Sa - Rest

Su (Volume) - BS/BP/Short
M - Medium
T (Light) - BS/SP/PC
W - Rest
Th (Heavy) - BS/SP/DL
Fri - short/medium
Sa - Rest

Monday could be acceptably replaced with a rest day if you need additional recovery.

The variant on this I'm considereing is to use the Light Tuesday to work in Olympic lifting - C&J, SN, OHS, FS in an intelligent rotation that fits with the schedule above (for example, if it's light DL/SP - C&J would be appropriate. I typically would SN or OHS with BP.

For the conditioning work, you really have to think about recovery, and plan stuff that will minimize impact to the lifts - really dependent on your goals of course. Here's my take on the lengths:
Short - something under 10 minutes. Sprint intervals, a short brutal couplet like Fran (if you like crossfit methodology).
Medium - 10-20 minutes in duration.
Long - up to 35-45 minutes.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

[ColoWayno]

Thanks. I never really got the conditioning organized when I was doing TM and I mostly dropped it. Your program looks about as good as it can be to me. I am worried a little bit about loosing strength on 5-3-1 but I want to see how this break from volume works for me (an old dude). Since I only have 3 4 week cycles before I go home and on vacation I might play around with my starting weights (work backwards from a goal) so I at least end up even or a little stronger.

[PVC]

I don't know enough to give you programming advice, but I just want to address your concern that 5/3/1 starts with a deload.

The deload on 5/3/1 affects the weight you will be lifting, yes. However, each workout you are lifting whatever weight is assigned to you for as many reps as possible, so you will still be able to get stronger even with the deload. If you were to stick to the minimum of lifting 5 reps the first week, 3 reps the second week and 1 rep the third week then yes, you would get weaker for a bit. But if you make sure to push yourself on those sets, you will get stronger.

For example:
Your squat max is 330. For 5/3/1 you would start with 90% of that number to base the rest of your calculations on, so that would be about 295 lbs.

For the first week, you would be squatting 250 for 5+ reps. If you were to squat this weight for exactly 5 reps, your predicted 1RM (with the calculation Wendler provides in the book) would be 292 lbs. If you squatted 6 reps, it would be 300 lbs. If you squatted 7 reps it would be 308 lbs; 8 reps would be 317 lbs; 9 reps would be 325 lbs, etc.

For the second week, you would be squatting 270 lbs for 3+ reps. If you squatted 3 reps your predicted 1RM would be 297 lbs; 4 reps would be 306; 5 reps would be 315; 6 reps would be 324, etc.

So as long as you made sure to push yourself for reps on your sets, like the program tells you to do, you wouldn't be getting weaker. Of course, there is probably still going to be a bit of a deload - I mean, in the first week are you really going to be able to squat 10 reps of 250 (putting your predicted 1RM above 330) if you've never squatted for more than 5 reps before? Maybe, maybe not. But you will not lose strength on 5/3/1, as long as you set your goals for reps accordingly.

[ColoWayno]

Thanks PVC, I sort of keep forgetting that aspect of 5-3-1 you mention is quite different from SS.

[jacob cloud]

I know some of you guys like analyzing stuff like this... bless you and thanks.
I'd appreciate any ideas and/or comments you may have on holding my weight as a constant while improving conditioning and staying pretty strong.

Age 47, Weight 200 (dressed)
Training history: basically 1 year on SS (went from 160lbs to 175)
9 months on TM (went to about 190)
I just went back to regular SS and simple progression for about 6 weeks and that's where I'm at now.
I had a little brush with over training on the last round of linear progression, but I'm recovering pretty quickly and have decided to switch to 5-3-1 for the remainder of my deployment (12 more weeks!).
5-3-1 starts with a deload, but I'd like to have my lifts back to where they were or beyond by the time I leave and improve my conditioning quite a bit. I'd like to keep my weight where it is for now. This is partly due to the fact that I can't stand to keep eating tons of the food they serve here. I try to choke down as much dried out meat as I can but there's only so much I can take. I have whey and I take that twice a day (50g each). I take two containers out for breakfast. One for 4 eggs, sausage and oatmeal, the other for fresh fruit and cheese. I turn that into two morning meals. After lunch I have a shake and nuts, then dinner and another shake before I go to bed. After workouts I also eat a Cliff bar for some quick carbs. I get veggies with lunch and dinner and usually drink about 24 oz of milk in the AM.
I wanted to do conditioning 3x per week, 1 barbell complex session, 1 run (working up to 2-3 miles @9 minute pace), and maybe 1 day of hill sprints. I need ideas on conditioning routines. I need to work power cleans in as accessories and/or part of conditioning because I want to improve them quite a bit.
I may drop 5-3-1 down to three or even two days a week, depending on how things are going, as I ramp up the conditioning stuff.

My 1RM's are (approx)
Squat 330lbs,
Deadlift 350lbs,
Bench 240lbs,
Press 140lbs

I don't think you need to overcomplicate things here. You're a bit older, not a competitive lifter, and on duty. If you want 2-3 days of "lifting," and 3 days of conditioning, go for it. That's a lot of volume for an older guy, but I'd suggest something along the lines of the WFCF idealogy, not 5/3/1. If you do want to stick with 5/3/1, I'd suggest 3-4 days of lifting (1 main lift per day according to the 5/3/1 protocol), followed with "metcon" type work (your hill sprints, bb complexes, etc. done after the main lift).

Your weight will be constrained exclusively by your diet. Eat to maintain. Don't let yourself drop weight, or you'll likely lose strength. It's that easy.

If you wanted to follow 5/3/1, you could do something like this:
Day 1: Press 5/3/1, BB complex like the bear for ~10 minutes full out - light weight, metcon is the focus, not strength, lots of overhead focus - possible place for a thruster/chin couplet
Day 2: Squat 5/3/1, Power Cleans on the minute, 2-4 reps, 10-15 minutes
(rest at least a day)
Day 3: Bench 5/3/1, 50 dips, distance run
Day 4: Deadlift 5/3/1, accessory lifts, include pullups/chins, hill sprints
(rest 2 days)

But really, you aren't giving enough info for anyone to write a decent program, they'll all be just shots in the dark. We would need a commitment on the # of days/week, which days, solid goals, perceived weaknesses, etc. to make informed suggestions.

[ColoWayno]

Thanks Jacob, that's a lot of work you did for free. It's always hard to know how much detail to give.
The "bear" sounds tough. I've done something like that before and I'll probably give it a try. I like the idea of thrusters since I need work on explosive movements in general. I think "explosive" will always be an exaggeration for me.
I should probably give WFCF a look as well, at least to learn what it's all about.

[ColoWayno]

Thanks all.

I'm taking quite a bit of Jacobs advice. Here's my log if you are interested in how it's going. Feel free to comment there too as I will be tweaking my program as I go along. BTW: I was mauled by "The Bear" and had to really dumb it down.

http://www.startingstrength.com/reso...520#post125520

[Paul Sousa]

If you want to do a conditioning heavy version of 531 the template I am using currently could be a good fit.

Day 1 - Bench, Squat, Accessories, Conditioning

Day 2 - Press, DL, Accessories, Conditioning

Day 3 - Conditioning

For me, I use the lifting days to do short, intense conditioning (sprint intervals, heavy met-cons, etc.). The third day I have been doing truck pushing, but I am slowly going to build myself some strongman and general conditioning pieces to use. It could be a good day for your long run though.

I just finished one cycle of this and liked it, but we'll see how I continue to progress. I am also skipping the deload week as suggested in the book when doing a 2 day/wk program.

Edit - Oh, you could also work some PC's on Day 3 as well.

[ColoWayno]

If you want to do a conditioning heavy version of 531 the template I am using currently could be a good fit.

Day 1 - Bench, Squat, Accessories, Conditioning

Day 2 - Press, DL, Accessories, Conditioning

Day 3 - Conditioning

For me, I use the lifting days to do short, intense conditioning (sprint intervals, heavy met-cons, etc.). The third day I have been doing truck pushing, but I am slowly going to build myself some strongman and general conditioning pieces to use. It could be a good day for your long run though.

I just finished one cycle of this and liked it, but we'll see how I continue to progress. I am also skipping the deload week as suggested in the book when doing a 2 day/wk program.

Edit - Oh, you could also work some PC's on Day 3 as well.

Thanks, I might do exactly that once my conditioning is to a point where I need to go to a 2 day lifting schedule.