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Thread: Fresh start?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    St. Thomas, Ontario
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    Default Fresh start?

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    I have had a rocky 2010 in terms of my training. It started off well, but then I had a miniscus tear, a shoulder injury of some sort and an intercostal tear (three seperate injuries doing different things). I've also been a bit of a lazy ass at times - motivation has been low due to injuries.

    Prior to fucking myself up, I was doing
    sq:205 after a reset that happened at 220
    deadlift: 275, never failed without good reason yet
    bench: 155, but I changed my style from elbows-in PL style to the way that rip recommends (elbows to 80*, bar above nipples), dropped down to 130 and blew out my shoulder... so I will be starting again much lower, actually rehabbing because I still can't bench the bar for 3x5 without pain. I CAN do it PL style, just not as rip recommends
    Press: 105 after a reset at 95, still climbing despite horrible training. I can press with my fucked up shoulder, just no bench.

    I'm not huge, I'm not ripped. I was scrawny and I've come a long way. I'm about 185lbs now at 5'11". I'd approximate 12%bf because that's what my bf% scale tells me (it has had a pretty good track record from what I can tell).

    INDTP, okay? I'm not going to manage 3x/week every week like clockwork. I am not training for sport. I am not going to weigh 220 in 2 months. I'm also not trying to have razor abzors, so don't totally dismiss me.

    So on to my question... Since I've had a crappy 3-months (with some progress, but mostly hurting myself) should I restart SS with a "first day" workout and go from there? Or should I just try to continue where I left off with what I can manage (squat 210 next time, deadlift what I can with sore ribs, bench the bar, etc)? I'll get back into eat-mode with 1/3gomad (I nearly drink this much anyway).

    Goals (all one-rm's)
    200 bench
    300 squat
    400 deadlift
    acheived by Jan1 2011 (So I have lots of time because I know I can get near these numbers now [if uninjured])

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
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    388

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    Do the SS program...I would back off about 20% on each of the lifts to begin with. That way you can ramp up without stalling too quickly. Focus on your form and try to be as consistent as possible. Consistency is the key.

    And consider GOMADing...meaning more than 1/3..as much as you can take.

    And how are you hurting yourself?
    Last edited by Patrick L.; 05-11-2010 at 08:31 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    St. Thomas, Ontario
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    a) squats in a squat rack that was no aligned with the floor tires made my brain turn stupid and my left foot was pointing forward - in conjunction with knees-out this caused sheer force causing a minor meniscus tear.
    b) deadlifting tore an intercostal. It just happened. I was doing NOTHING wrong.
    c) I switched from PL style bench to Rip's style of bench and didn't deload enough for my totally unprepared front deltoid. Pop.

    All of the above is fine with me. I know what happened (except deadlift, but apparently that "just happens) and I don't have any further programs. My knee injury only stopped me from squatting for a week. As long as i do it right, i get no pain. My knee clicks every time i straighten it now, though.

    So your vote is to simply back off and keep at it...

    Anybody want to back that idea up or tell me why I should start with a "SS first workout" instead? (by ss first workout I mean ramp up the weights from an empty bar till the bar slows and do that weight for 3x5 and progress from there).

    I won't do a full GOMAD - maybe a bit more than 1/3. I've gotten pretty good at packing down food instead of exta milk. When I'm in eat-mode (ie, when i am going to the gym and not injured) I have no problems putting on good weight.

    Input appreciated.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    24

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    So, you say YNDTP, but you are asking if you should DTP?

    In my non-personal-trainer opinion you should DTP. Start from square one if you are unsure about where to start (unloaded bar, adding weight until it slows, etc.).

    At your height and weight, you should have a lot of linear gains left (based on the numbers you listed above). If you are getting hurt a lot, you might consider taking some vids and posting them for review.

  5. #5
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    Dave, thanks.

    I'm not concerned about the injuries. They are all perfectly well explained and I'll be doign what I can to not have them happen again. The knee was stupid, the intercostals "just happen" and the shoulder was from a form change that hit new muscles without enough of a deload.

    Rip's recent article says that if you're "DTP" it means that you're eating 6000cal/day until you're reaching high-teens of BF% and you're also adding weight at a tremendous rate including 3x/week. Anything less is NDTP.

    So since I don't want to plow through so much food i'll be trying to keep to a "hearty" surplus os calories. Since I know that I won't be able to train 3x every week and I'm eating a little slower, I'm willing to accept slightly slower gains. So no, I'm not doing the program and I'm not expecting the same results.

    I am, however, not wasting my time and fully expecting to progress and gain weight and strength. My only concern is if I should start fresh with a "till the bar slows" workout, or just try to go from where I left off (which keeps me lifting heavy, but may cause me to stall sooner).

    I've got a vote each way now... Personally, i'm leaning towards a re-do, but I'm still seeing gains in squat and ohp so I'm reluctant.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA USA
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    Honestly, Matt, you sound like you're either injury-prone or have low pain tolerance. Or maybe you're just really unlucky. I don't think it's normal for someone to "blow out their shoulder" or tear all those body parts at this stage of your training. Whatever it is, I think you should be concerned with the injuries because they have negatively impacted your training for an entire year. In order to make gains you need to train consistently, and you can't train consistently if you're injured.

    I'm also suspect of your stats at 5'11", 185 lbs. and 12% BF. I am fairly certain I am higher BF than this (14-15%) at about the same height and weight, but all my lifts are considerably stronger than yours (and I am by no means gifted). I'm not trying to rub this in your face, but it could be you're at significantly higher BF than you think. Or, this could be an indication that there's something very wrong with your form/technique.

    In light of your injury history, I think the first thing to do is get some vids posted for some form feedback. If you're still making gains on the squat and the OHP, I don't think you should deload those lifts. If you need to deload the others to accommodate an injury, do so.

    As for diet, my recommendation is to try and get at least 150 grams of protein/day and then eat a surplus of ~500 or so calories on top of maintenance, whatever you think that is. If you're able to be more strict, you might try limiting carbs on off-days and placing your larger meals (and carbs) immediately post workout. That's a fairly easy way to nudge the partitioning in favor of muscle vs. fat. Just keep a log of your strength and weight gain and you can raise or lower the calories as required to meet your goals over the long term.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    I don't have any direct suggestions, so feel free to pass this over if you're in a hurry, but I completely hear you man.

    I was "at my best" quite a while ago. Even then, it wasn't much, but I was improving and feeling stronger. Now I'm still trying to get this squat symmetry thing down (ankle, maybe). I took a long time off due to school stressors, so I've "reset" way too many times. Honestly, fresh start is a good way to put it. You just want everything to line up, so you can attack it 100%.

    Do your best,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    St. Thomas, Ontario
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    cerv,

    Your advice makes sense.

    Regarding my stats and lifts - I'm not maxed out right now. I'm certain that I could be putting up bigger numbers. My last deadlift session (when I tore an intercostal) I doing my second set of 275x5 and the bar speed was good and fast. My squats were reset from 220 when I hurt my knee, but prior they were going up fine and when I got back to it 205 felt much easier than the last time I was at 205. I could see getting to 240 without stalling. OHP I previously reset because my form was horrendous. With good form now I put up 105 easily, followed by a double at 115 and a single at 125. My bench has ALWAYS sucked. In highschool I used to bench constantly and my numbers always sucked.

    My injuries are all perfectly well explainable. I honestly chalk them up to a little over-ambition, a little idiocy (knee) and bad luck. I'm not typically injury proned and as for pain tolerance - when the bar deosn't go up and it feels like something is "letting go", I stop. BTW, I havent lost a "whole year" we're only 4 months into 2010 and I'd say I've had a bad 3 months.

    This is interesting, though, that I'm getting alternating responses from "feel out the injuries and continue where you can" to "start over and begin progressing from a fresh start".

    Specifically, why continue and specifically why start over?

    By "start over" I don't mean go down to 135lb squats. I mean do a "first session" where I do sets of 5 from an empty bar and stop when the bar slows down. I'd guess that'd be around 185. For presses probably 85-90. Bench, deadlift and powerclean will be very low because of my shoulder and chest. I would guess 50lb bench, 170lb dead and 120lb PC. [these are total guesses].

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA USA
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    If time isn't a concern, I suppose there's no harm in playing it conservative and deloading a bit. You're talking about resetting your squat from 205 to 185, which you can make up in just a few sessions. But if you want to be as efficient as possible, there isn't any logical reason to deload an exercise that you're making gains on. If the issue is with an injury, follow the rehab sticky on Rip's Q&A.

    I would be concerned that if you get into the habit of deloading whenever the weight starts to feel heavy, you might be setting a precedent for the future. At some point, likely well before you are about to stall, the weight just gets to be really, really heavy. You have to continue on, and you need to train your mind to be able to handle this.

    I'm not typically injury proned and as for pain tolerance - when the bar deosn't go up and it feels like something is "letting go", I stop.
    As long as your form and technique is sound, I don't know that this is the correct way to approach your lifts. As you add weight to the bar, you will get to the point where it will take every ounce of physical and mental toughness to drive the bar up. Bar speed will slow down and you will be forced to grind each rep out. Form may even start to break down (hopefully not too much). But that doesn't mean you stop or give up.

    This is the beauty of these compound lifts, IMO. Accepting that you're going to lift some heavy-ass-shit for 3 sets of 5, three times per week, is just an absolute mind fuck when you start getting into PR territory.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "something is letting go" but it sounds to me like you might be giving up on your lifts when the weight starts to feel really heavy. Most injuries like muscle tears or joint injuries just happen - you don't get a few seconds of "Oh I can feel this is about to tear" before you sustain an injury. Do not allow that fear to creep into your head, it's messing with you.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
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    starting strength coach development program
    With the abundance of injuries and to allow your body to catch up, I'd recommend starting from day 1 again. You could probably afford a few 10-15 lb jumps at first, but you will start at a weight lower than if you were to deload off your PRs.

    You want to give your body time to readjust to lifting again, and starting from scratch is a great way to do that while also engraving good form into your motor pathways.

    In my opinion, you should go back into everything with the mindset of hitting the weights 3 times a week. If you go into it haphazardly, you will be much more likely to stray again.

    Just my .02

    -Hat

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