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Thread: Modified SS routine to be more cycling/running friendly?

  1. #1
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    Jun 2010
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    Default Modified SS routine to be more cycling/running friendly?

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    So far I've seen some great results after just 5 weeks on SS, my legs barely fit into my suit pants now though they are so massive . My cardio, however, has gone to shit.

    My primary goal is to use SS as a basis of achieving "intermediate" lifts I.e. 150 deadlift, 130kg squat, 100kg bench, 65kg press. From there, I was really hoping to cut back to a Chest/Tri, Legs/Shoulders, Back/Bi routine which will really allow me to get my cycling and running back up to speed on every "off training" day apart from the one after Legs/Shoulders. I will tie this in with a less calorie-intense diet to develop and maintain a low BF%.

    At the moment the big lifts are REALLY killing me when I try and run/ride at any sort of pace the next day, as you'd expect!

    In the meantime, as I have a couple of cycling/running (duathlon) and more long distance events (I.e. City 2 Surf - 15kms), unfortunately I'm forced to do SS only two days a week, enabling me to train my running and cycling more often.

    What I am looking to do is maintain a certain strength level for hill climbing purposes on my bike, as well as a very strong core. I'm also really just trying to develop and maintain a "healthy look". I'm not looking to become "massive" nor am I ever plan on becoming competitive within the BB scene. I'm hoping the above plan will get me there reasonably efficiently without sacrificing too much.

    So, here's the plan -

    Next 4-6 weeks will be SS twice per week. I.e. 1 & 2, 3 & 1, 2 & 3, 1 & 2 etc. Run on day BEFORE gym. One day of cycling on weekend.

    After C2S event - Possibly back to 3 days of SS to bring me to (or close to) intermediate level lifts. Really dependent on how much I need to reset % wise. Run or ride once per week. Might drop one day of SS if cardio degrades again though.

    Once Intermediate level lifts are reached, change to 3 day routine (chest/tri, legs/shoulders, back/bi), including DL's and squats as part of my leg routine. Some extra compound stuff (i.e. shrugs) and some extra isolation stuff (curls, tri pushdown etc.) chucked in there too. A 3 day routine will then allow my legs to loosen up a bit for more intense (but not necessarily more) cardio sessions, 1, 2 or up to 3 times per week.

    Am I on the wrong path?

  2. #2
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    Fort Belvoir
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    Yes, you already used the "C" word and it's only your first post! Just kidding, welcome to the boards; I'm still somewhat of a beginner myself so your post is quite out of my range. Although I'm interested in hearing the replies as I have a hard time balancing SS with my Military duties (Running) as well.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2010
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    I am curious as to why you would go from a routine that is building strength to a bodybuilding split routine (chest/tris, back/bis, and all that stuff). If you need to stay at a certain size, why not just eat less, stop raising the weight during every training session, and focus on using the compound lifts to help you maintain a good level of whole-body strength (rather than all of that "direct work" bodybuilding junk)? You don't HAVE to GOMAD and eat a ton if you feel your sport of choice doesn't require you to be as strong as you can be.

    Doing the big, compound movements is not incompatible with running or cycling, unless you are an elite-level competitor whose time trials depend on having the upper body muscle mass of a small child. ;-)

  4. #4
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    You should stick with the basic 5 lift program until you have exhausted your linear progression. Become as strong as you can and it will help you in your long slow distance sports. I understand that completing your linear progression on the big five will, for a short period, make training your long slow distance sports difficult, but you are training two different energy systems (aerobic and anaerobic) and two differnt muscular systems (fast v slow twitch). This is an oversimplification, but not untrue.

    Unless you are a college athlete or some class of professional runner/biker, you should take 6 months off from training your LSD work and focus on strnegth and strength recovery. Others on this board have done it and when they returned to their LSD sports, noted very little drop off (if any) in their longer distances and an increase in the shorter distance times. Becoming stronger is worth it.

    Make sure you read all of Starting Strength, the book, not just some wiki. Also, you should purchase Practical Programming. These books are very, very well written references.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
    I am curious as to why you would go from a routine that is building strength to a bodybuilding split routine (chest/tris, back/bis, and all that stuff). If you need to stay at a certain size, why not just eat less, stop raising the weight during every training session, and focus on using the compound lifts to help you maintain a good level of whole-body strength (rather than all of that "direct work" bodybuilding junk)? You don't HAVE to GOMAD and eat a ton if you feel your sport of choice doesn't require you to be as strong as you can be.

    Doing the big, compound movements is not incompatible with running or cycling, unless you are an elite-level competitor whose time trials depend on having the upper body muscle mass of a small child. ;-)
    I don't really need to stay a "certain size" at all - I really just am going to the gym to get a decent looking body, particularly upper body, and I've noticed that my legs are now like tree trunks and my upper hasn't really changed that much at all. Not really what I'm after, as I've learnt a few times that having big strong legs does not equate to being able to ride faster or get up hills any better. Originally I started going to the gym to try and improve my hill climbing. Didn't work at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    You should stick with the basic 5 lift program until you have exhausted your linear progression. Become as strong as you can and it will help you in your long slow distance sports. I understand that completing your linear progression on the big five will, for a short period, make training your long slow distance sports difficult, but you are training two different energy systems (aerobic and anaerobic) and two differnt muscular systems (fast v slow twitch). This is an oversimplification, but not untrue.

    Unless you are a college athlete or some class of professional runner/biker, you should take 6 months off from training your LSD work and focus on strength and strength recovery. Others on this board have done it and when they returned to their LSD sports, noted very little drop off (if any) in their longer distances and an increase in the shorter distance times. Becoming stronger is worth it.

    Make sure you read all of Starting Strength, the book, not just some wiki. Also, you should purchase Practical Programming. These books are very, very well written references.
    Thanks - But I really am sceptical that that is the case (I.e. there is an improvement, rather than it degrading performance) because this is now the second time that I've given strength training a go to improve my long distance cycling and running, and man, it completely destroys any long distance ability that I might have ever had.

    May I ask what those people do once they starting doing LSD again - I.e. do they continue to go to the gym for high rep range workouts, once or twice a week or something?

    In summary, I'm really looking to be fit, but not look like the weed-type body that many fit people have. I want to be able to run decently, ride decently and lift weights decently all the time (i.e. to maintain upper body, keep fat down etc.). Is this even possible?

  6. #6
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    May I ask what those people do once they starting doing LSD again - I.e. do they continue to go to the gym for high rep range workouts, once or twice a week or something?
    Read chapters 3, 4 and 5 in PPST2 for the answer to this and other questions. Really, chapters 1-5 will give answers and context for most of your questions.

  7. #7
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    I don't have the book. I think I better buy it. Where's the "official" source?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwolfie View Post
    I don't have the book. I think I better buy it. Where's the "official" source?
    Ummm . . . scroll to the top of this page and click on Products.

  9. #9
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    Max Faget is really glad that people with no experience developing endurance athletes are making suggestions on how endurance athletes should train, all because Bill Starr got paid to say strength > anything else.

    It's not as if being good at an endurance sport requires a foundation of LSD training. Therefore, continue to get good at lifting and ignore the needs of your sport!

    Max Faget Approved.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Faget View Post
    It's not as if being good at an endurance sport requires a foundation of LSD training. Therefore, continue to get good at lifting and ignore the needs of your sport!

    Max Faget Approved.
    LSD training is more about mental state than physical preparedness, man.
    Like, what have you been reading before-hand, and what records have you been listening to, what you been sucking from the cathode-ray nipple! You gotta pack for your trip, man!

    I mean, you can't go watching Apocalypse Now and expect to have a good trip. Pretty simple stuff.

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