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Thread: What can I expect from shoulder surgery?

  1. #1
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    Default What can I expect from shoulder surgery?

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    I just put this query to Rip, as I knew he had shoulder surgery and thought he might have some good advice. But he basically called me a pussy, and that I should probably take some steroids to man up!

    Hopefully some of you can share your experiences of shoulder problems, it would be especially good to hear from those who went through with surgeries or managed to cope with day to day instability & impingement problems.


    I am a mid 20's male, who has had shoulder problems for my whole life. My shoulders have always been very unstable and prone to painful minor subluxations and heavy impingement. I have never been able to pitch a ball without causing lingering pain, which feels like something has been pinched or torn.

    I started lifting at the beginning of last year, I was doing bench pressing, standing press, push ups and lots of specific rotator cuff rehab work. This all had a remarkable effect on reducing my impingement and improved my ROM massively. I begun SS this year and dropping r.cuff work. Eventually I got my right shoulder to the stage where it no longer causes me problems in my everyday activities and training. For all intents & purposes, it is cured.

    But my left is as every bit problematic as day one. It still impinges (all be it much less), but is still very unstable. Even holding the handlebars on my bike cause it to shift around in the socket, I have to keep muscles "active" and internally rotate to prevent painful subluxing and strain on the shoulder, which leaves me tired and with soreness in the shoulder.

    In terms of lifts, my bench press stopped progressing way before I was even at bodyweight. All other lifts continued to grow but bench & ohp have been at a standstill more or less. When I push myself to pass this plateau I just get stuck due to the shoulder instability & pain. I find it hard to keep form at maximal weights as it is very easy to get impingement which screws up form totally.

    My bench press is only 60% of my squat or 50% of my deadlift, and the disparity continues to grow. Im seen as an oddity in the gym, by myself as much as others. I deadlift, squat, & do pull ups at decent numbers, which makes people respect me and even ask for advice. But my bench & press are lower than the scrawniest most clueless trainees that I see.

    Today I went to an a local bench press comp and saw kids who were in my eyes anoerexic, bench my 1rm for 30 speed reps. This really made it sink in, my strength here really does suck.

    I have been trying to get medical advice for the issue over the past few months, I have seen multiple clueless consultants and therapists. I have been told by some that my shoulders are perfect but just lacking muscle/strength, that weightlifting is perfect. By others that I must stop at once, and that 5 reps is only for bodybuilders who want to acheive atrophy (I kid you not) and that all the worlds scientists got together and agreed that 15 reps was the optimum range for strength work. I have had therapists breakdown in tears when I most politely displayed a lack of confidence in their advice, I have had a consultant recommend that I have acupuncture to remedy my shoulder problems, that it "really works" (I emphasised that I have mechanical problems, not pain).

    Basically a lot of BS. But I finally got to see a decent surgeon/doctor the other day. He gave me a very good examination, and for the first time used tests that clearly identified my impingement & instability. He also had a very confident swagger, and suggested that the cartilage in my shoulder was too loose & stretchy, that it will probably need to be tightened up with keyhole surgery. But that we would try some proprioception based physical therapy first, as the stuff I had been recommended so far had apparently been totally innapropriate.

    I have never wanted or liked the idea of surgery, but things are looking promising now that there seems to be potential options and solutions ahead. If the op was definetely going to have a significant postive effect, then I would jump on the operating table right now. But the doctors cannot offer me any specific advice on how any of this might effect my activities like lifting, and what post-op rehab may be for someone who is a keen and determined strength trainee.

    I want to be able to bench & overhead press impressive weights, I want to snatch in confidence that I will not dislocate shoulder, I want to be able to to go on long distance bike rides, I want to be able to throw punches with left hand.

    I cannot do any of these things, and was wondering if you were familiar with the outcomes of something like this? Is the recovery time and such worth the potential benefits?

  2. #2
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    you have no Idea, I had a stabilization surgery in my right shoulder using two anchors, it's been two years now, I endured the rehab period, been a pussy for a while after *that helped*, then s l o w l e l y went back to lifting, well it's still great so far.

    here are some things to consider.

    1- do not test your luck, be a coward be a pussy do what you gotta do but do not over react.

    2- on the first sight of pain, lose the hard work, be lazy.

    3- when feeling confident push it, but still do not over react.

    4- always hear what your therapist have to say

    5- last one, have patience *trying to tell that to my self all the time*


    hope that helps

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dastardly View Post
    I just put this query to Rip, as I knew he had shoulder surgery and thought he might have some good advice. But he basically called me a pussy, and that I should probably take some steroids to man up!
    I can't comment on your problem directly, because while I have loose, flexible shoulders, they're not anywhere near as sloppy as yours.

    I can, however, comment on your post, and why I think it got the response that it got from Rip.

    I think he partly called you a wuss, but I also think he was implying that a stronger shoulder (one surrounded by more meat) would take care of the slop in the joint. Something you've achieved in one, and not the other. Hence the PED.

    Part of the problem is that your post is kind of contradictory.

    But my left is as every bit problematic as day one. It still impinges (all be it much less), but is still very unstable.
    So is it better, or is it not better?

    I have to keep muscles "active" and internally rotate to prevent painful subluxing and strain on the shoulder, which leaves me tired and with soreness in the shoulder.
    This makes it sound like you've learned how to stabilize the joint in various situations. So what is stopping you from doing so when you lift?

    Clearly doing this while lifting near your maximum would be really difficult, but we're not generally training that close to our max, right?

    ...I just get stuck due to the shoulder instability & pain. I find it hard to keep form at maximal weights as it is very easy to get impingement which screws up form totally.
    Does this mean 5RM weight? Or Pressing For Glory?

    The post makes it sound like you actually know how to go about permanently stabilizing your goofy shoulder, since you've already done it with the other one (and have since dropped a lot of the shoulder work that helped get you there), but you're not willing to put in the work on the other. Or not willing to take the risk.

    I think it might be worth it to clarify (assuming it's true) that you're not talking about 'discomfort' when you're talking about your shoulder pain, you're talking about not being able to use the damn thing because of serious pain/injury. You never really got around to saying that doing the work needed to strengthen your shoulder leaves it unusable. And he may be skeptical about the likelihood of you actually trashing your shoulder pressing (either bench or OH), especially since it seems like you haven't done so yet. Real injury is a different ball game than discomfort, and will probably get a different response, since Rip seems to take real injuries pretty seriously.

    Discomfort, though, is something you just have to deal with. It's part of the process, and avoiding it is being a pussy. So if it's not just discomfort you're dodging, I'd rephrase the question. Ask how to work around the fact that you can't maintain form at a 5RM weight, because it literally forces your shoulder out of the socket, if that's the case.

    It's not really clear what the situation is (discomfort and some possibility of injury if you're not careful vs actual injury), and I think Rip's default setting is that people don't like discomfort and try to weasel out of it anyway they can, which he finds deeply annoying.

    So, that's my take.

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys for taking the time to give a detailed reply. I do appreciate it.

    Tertius:

    I am definetely not bothered by pain. I am bothered by mechanical problems in my shoulder and the pain lets me know when something is wrong. I am troubled when I can feel something is wrong, that I am damaging joints/ligaments which will prevent me from being able to use limbs effectively for weeks or more.

    I have to focus immensely hard on the tightest possible thoracic extension and keeping the shoulder blades back, to make benching or overhead pressing at all possible. Otherwise I get a type of impingement where it feels like tissue is getting pinched between bones and literally torn up. When I started training I could barely do any sort of pressing movement at all due to this issue, but I slowly developed enough stabilising ability to do them.

    This has got me to around a 65kg bench press at 75kg bodyweight. Even with that weight I struggle to stabilise and end up with minor injury. I have been struggling to get past this point for months. I do not have the ability to perform 5rm's

    Your detailed post has helped me understand Rips mindset (tertius), I might think over whether I should coax some information from him.

  5. #5
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    While I don't presume to speak for the man, I just thought I'd share my impression, based on watching him reply to people's questions, and I'm glad to be of service.

    I'd just be as clear as humanly possible about what you can and can't do, and what happens if you over-exert your shoulder, if you prod him again.

  6. #6
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    Gwynn pm'ed me strongly recommending "the feldenkrais method", I thought id stick my reply in this thread.

    The surgeon I saw recently referred me for proprioception based physical therapy. I just looked up tthe Feldenkrais Method, which seems to be the same thing.

    I had not been expecting much from this therapy as I have been doing so much of my own careful therapy. I can totally feel the inner workings of my shoulder and know when things are going wrong/things are being damaged.

    I already adapt myself to new types of movement techniques to best avoid issues. Such as keeping an active shoulder and internally rotating arm while cycling to prevent shoulder subluxing outward and straining the capsule.

    While doing any form of pressing I have to create the most incredibly strong thoracic extension/retracted shoulder blades to prevent painful (damaging) impingement and instability. As soon as I strain out of this optimum position in the slightest, the shoulder impinges, creating pain suggestive of pinching/tearing which leads my elbow and to wing out and strain the shoulder capsule.

    I have problems with anything over a 5x5 kinda weight. Pushing myself even with 3x5 is problematic. 1-5rm's which I technically need to be doing now as part of TM are totally out of the question.

  7. #7
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    I'm confused by this:
    I have problems with anything over a 5x5 kinda weight. Pushing myself even with 3x5 is problematic. 1-5rm's which I technically need to be doing now as part of TM are totally out of the question.
    If you're not pressing very much weight, why would you be doing the TM stuff? If your squats and deadlifts have plateaued, I can see you switching up your programming on them, but it seems really unlikely to me that you have reached the end of your novice progression in your upper body, and you appear to know that.

    And that lack of development might be what stalled out your squats in the first place.

    Actually, looked at your log, and see you aren't deadlifting. So never mind that.

  8. #8
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    Yes yes, a bit of confusion there. You are right, I have probably have no place doing TM for upper body. I tried TM a few weeks ago on account of reaching the end of novice progression on squats. But it didnt work out so well.

    I felt I had to follow TM for upper body aswell, but I have a better understanding of it now. I have attempted to progress past 65kg on the bench a couple of times during the past few weeks with a couple deloads using of 3x5, it doesnt budge.

    I should probably create some sort of programming which basically follows the Heavy/Light/Medium periodisation in terms of volume. But always keep the sets fairly high rather than trying lower rep/set PR's as per TM.

    Maybe something like 10x5 Bench or 5x5 followed by dips/incline/dumbells on monday.

    Press on Wednesday.

    And 3x5 Bench on Friday.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Actually, looked at your log, and see you aren't deadlifting. So never mind that.
    I am deadlifting. Only started again during the past couple sessions but I havent put them in my log yet.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dastardly View Post
    Gwynn pm'ed me strongly recommending "the feldenkrais method", I thought id stick my reply in this thread.
    It's not the same thing as what you are already doing, however.
    Feldenkrais is not at all like physical therapy of any kind. Just sayin'.

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