"Gluteal Amnesia?"

[Matt Reynolds]

Rip,

I've searched a fair amount on the forum for an answer or general guidance for this issue, but haven't had much luck so far. Also, as I'm sure you are aware I have access to, and have read all your books (and articles), so if you've addressed this issue just point me in the right direction and I'll look it up myself...

I believe I'm having some glute firing issues. Along powerlifting circles the term thrown around is usually "gluteal amnesia." I have absolutely no problem getting my glutes (and specifically my glute maximus) firing hard when I power clean, and when I deadlift light weight. (I actually usually over-accentuate the glute firing on my early warm-up sets of deadlifts to help activate the glutes for the movement)...

However, when I get to a heavy, heavy deadlift (90%+) I REALLY struggle to fire my glutes to help lock out the weight. (at least it feels that way). If I understand biomechanics correctly the glute max helps the hips extend, along primarily with the hamstrings. (while the glute med/min are abductors). Is it possible on a heavy deadlift that my hamstrings are doing the work to extend the hips and my glute max doesn't fire much at all (certainly with very little force?)

Also, we have noticed lately that while we can knock out glute ham raises all day, that in reality the glutes STRUGGLE to isometrically maintain hip extension at the bottom of the movement, when the movement is reversed. You can clearly see a minor flexion in the hips at the bottom of the movement until the body gets in a more advantageous position, and then the glutes and hamstrings bring the hips back into extension.

Do you see this issue often? Thoughts?

Matt

[Mark Rippetoe]

I think you're confusing "firing" with a isolated concentric contraction. In the absence of neural damage, the glute contracts as a part of hip extension. It cannot be separated from the rest of the contracting muscles that contribute to this complex, multi-muscle action. In other words, in the absence of pathology and if your technique is correct, i.e. skeletal components are positioned correctly, if the hips are extending all the posterior chain muscles are firing, and you should not expect to feel any one of them contracting in isolation.

As for this: "Also, we have noticed lately that while we can knock out glute ham raises all day, that in reality the glutes STRUGGLE to isometrically maintain hip extension at the bottom of the movement, when the movement is reversed. You can clearly see a minor flexion in the hips at the bottom of the movement until the body gets in a more advantageous position, and then the glutes and hamstrings bring the hips back into extension." , I'm having a hard time visualizing your point. The hips are in flexion at the "bottom" of a GHR.

[Matt Reynolds]

Well guys do the GHR two different ways...in one instance at the "bottom" of the movement, when it is reversed, the knees and hips are in extension: ie. the body is in a straight line from the shin to the shoulder. It is at this point the movement is reversed and the concentric portion of the movement is essentially knee flexion (and ankel extension), while maintaining hip extension.

The second movement is quite similiar, except that in the bottom of the movement, the hips are allowed to bend, and then the initial concentric portion of the movement is the extension of the lower back and hips, and THEN the hard flexion of the knees (with ankle extension) while isometrically holding extension of the hips and back.

So we are trying to acheive hip and back extension FIRST, and knee flexion and ankle extension SECOND during the concentric portion of the movement.
Is this not how you guys do it?

[Mark Rippetoe]

We don't do them much here. I don't have any advanced guys right now, and they hurt my back -- when I do them my back stays fucked up, and when I don't it doesn't. Situps too.