chinups and pullups -- frequency method

[Bronan the Barbarian]

I am using the frequency method to improve my chinups. I do anywhere from four to eight sets of seven everyday.

My question is whether it would be more productive to alternate sets between chinups and pullups? Slightly different stimulus, more lat work, etc. Or would I be shortchanging both movements?

[LudwigVan]

Whether it'd be "more productive" depends on why you're doing them in the first place, I think. Personally I do chins pretty much exclusively because they use more muscle mass and a longer range of motion. I'm pretty sure John Sheaffer recommends the same thing for the same reason. But if you need to be good at pullups for some reason, like a test or a sport or competition, you should do them.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

I am doing them in preparation for a Marine Corps PFT, on which you can do either pullups or chinups. Perfect score is 20. I will of course be doing chinups.

As for chinups using "more muscle mass and a longer range of motion," I've read this before from Sheaffer. However, I'm not sure that this should be the whole story on pullups versus chinups. Isn't there a valid response that pullups work a particular part of the chinup musculature harder, and so are also valuable? When I'm going through a lazy period where I do only chins, I sometimes feel that my lats are getting neglected as compared to the stress they get from pullups. So I wonder whether a program of chinups+pullups might improve my chinup max more effectively than a program of chinups alone will. Thoughts?

[jerji]

part of the reason to do the "frequency method" is for motor pattern lubing. if you do a different motion, it seems like you'd compromise that benefit. if you want to do 20 chinups, I think you should just keep doing chinups.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

Good point. I was wondering though whether the movements are similar enough for that effect not to be compromised. In the absence of anecdotes I guess we're just speculating. Best option is probably to just stick with what we know works, i.e., specificity.

[peacerenity]

SS says that chinups use the biceps a fair amount, while pullups barely utilize the biceps at all. In the absence of this biceps usage, pullups relies more on the lats. So both use pretty much the same set of muscles, they just emphasize different individual muscles. I've been doing pullups, but I'm going to switch to chinups because I feel like my back gets enough of a workout with deadlifts. Even more so if you're doing power cleans.

I wouldn't say there's any harm in doing both, it just may be unnecessary.

[zzt]

I am using the frequency method to improve my chinups. I do anywhere from four to eight sets of seven everyday.

My question is whether it would be more productive to alternate sets between chinups and pullups? Slightly different stimulus, more lat work, etc. Or would I be shortchanging both movements?

Yes it will be. Keep the frequency up, but vary the reps per set, hand spacing, proximity to failure etc....and watch your fatigue. Practicing variations, and not pushing too hard is the key with this sort of training...works like a f*king charm though.

I would say do a few sets of your target movement (i.e pick your strongest movement as your target exercise), and then do a variation for volume...you need to do a variation because the target movement will get stale (i.e. accomodation) within a few weeks of doing only that movement....a week or so before your test, drop the variations and focus on the target move. Taper your volume 2-3 days before...just do a few sets a day

[Bronan the Barbarian]

My PFT was this past Saturday. I did 19 chins, which is a PR. This is at a bodyweight of 230. My previous chins PR was 16 at a bodyweight of around 205.

Bottom line, I used the frequency method for about a month, never going higher than sets of 8 chins, usually for 3-6 sets per day, and it brought me to 19 chins, a PR by 3 reps. Awesome result.

[MEbigUsmall]

I dont understand why this method would be better than doing them till failure. I am sure you guys have it figured out, so I'm just curious why this works better.

[Wall Flood]

And, is this in conjunction with another workout like SS, TM, 531 etc?

If so, wouldnt that interfere with the program?

Just trying to learn...as 20 is my goal like the OPs.

Thanks-