11 reps @ 90%rm - why, and how to program with this in mind?

[samppa]

I have no idea how much info you guys would need to help me, so I'll write quite a long piece here. The basic questions are in the title. Personal info: 20 year old male, 77kg.

I have been training a bit over a year now. Began with SS, moved to 5/3/1 after 7 months of ss (I had a 9 month break after 4months of SS, continued for 3 months after). I made what I feel was a slow progress on bench and deadlift, squat was my strongest lift. Then I changed to 5/3/1 and along came the max rep sets (for those few unfamiliar with the program, the last set for your main lift of the day would always be max rep set).

Things got strange some month ago, first on deadlift then on bench. For deadlift, the closer I got to 150kg, the bigger gap the would be between the reps I got on first and second week when compared to third week. When I started 5/3/1 I was getting result you would expect, 10 reps on first week, 7 on second, 3 on third. As the weight got closer to 150kg however, I started to get 10 reps on BOTH first and second week despite the weight difference, and then dramatic decrease on third week to the point where sometimes I couldn't get the bar of the ground . Same thing on bench as I got closer to repping 80kg. I'd get same reps for first and second week regardless of the weight increase, but the third week would bring the reps all the way down even when the weight increased only by 5kg.

For a long time I thought that the huge drop in reps compared to small increase in weight were just because I had a shitty day, but I can't belive that anymore, especially since I recently tested my maxes. My deadlift rep pr is 150kg x 11, my 1rm was 165kg. For bench my rep pr is 77.5kg x 11 but after a hard 85kg I couldn't lift 90kg anymore. I was well rested during these attempts, so I'd think there is no real chance that I got low reps on third week because first 2 would fatigue me, as if that was the case it would follow that after resting I'd be able to lift bigger weight which was not the case.

What's going on here? Am I just slow twitch dominant as hell? Is there something wrong with my nervous system when it comes to heavy loads?

And then comes the programming problem. If I use my real maxes to calculate work sets, I will end up with ridiculously easy work out since anything submaximal I'd have to rep for ridiculous amounts for it to feel anything but light warmup. If I use calculated max numbers I'll get an actually challenging workout, until the %rm goes past certain point and I can't move the bar an inch. So yeah, what the hell do I do? Should I just continue with 5/3/1 since it gives at least one set per day that actually makes me work, or come up with some program of my own that has me doing high reps @ high % of my real 1rm.

Thanks guys, if you think this is something Rip could help me with maybe I'll post it to q&a later, until then I'll trust myself to you.

Oh yea one more thing: I suppose the high reps scheme does work for me, when I started 5/3/1 my deadlift pr was 120kgx5. In 7 month I went from that to 150kgx11, I'd say that's a good progress, certainly better than what I made during low rep work in ss.

[halbritt]

Couple things:

5/3/1 is not an intermediate program and it seems like you need to be on an intermediate program. Even so, it appears as though you're not doing the program according to Wendler who cautions that the weight will feel light, but not to let your ego get the better of you. I'd suggest that you either do the program that you purport to be on or pick one that's more appropriate for your progress.

[Dastardly]

All the percentage/intensity numbers lose their meaning if you are still novice/early intermediate.

This week I 10repped my 3rm on bench press.

[Tiburon]

This week I 10repped my 3rm on bench press.

88 lbs? j/k

[Dastardly]

88 lbs? j/k

You would be right to think it was light, but not that light. I only started benching again about 3-4weeks ago. After experimenting with using push presses instead.

[LudwigVan]

On the one hand, if you're not planning on competing, your 1RM doesn't matter that much. If you increase your multi-RM, you're stronger.

But my first guess would be technique problems and/or a failure to get properly psyched up for maximal weights.

[enlightenedsnipe]

Deadlift I'm going to make a wild guess grip strength/endurance has something major to do with it. If you aren't, I would advise switching to mixed grip, and just alternating which side you use when it gets heavy. Also, are you doing touch and go DLs? If you're not completely stopping between each one, it's a lot easier to up the number (for example, my DL PR was 455, I reset, and on the first cycle of 5/3/1 got 9 reps at 380ish).

Don't know about bench, I'm not qualified to talk about that.

[samppa]

Couple things:

5/3/1 is not an intermediate program and it seems like you need to be on an intermediate program. Even so, it appears as though you're not doing the program according to Wendler who cautions that the weight will feel light, but not to let your ego get the better of you. I'd suggest that you either do the program that you purport to be on or pick one that's more appropriate for your progress.

So you'd say it is an advanced program? I suppose, since the weight increases are monthly, not weekly, but then again I recall wendler saying that the program is really for anyone, and it is often suggested as one of the programs to do after ss.

Personally I understood Wendlers remark about weight being light pointing to the start of the program, where it will be at it's lightest obivously since you are taking 90% of your true max and using it as a max and one is probably used to lifting heavier if they come from ss for example.

Deadlift I'm going to make a wild guess grip strength/endurance has something major to do with it. If you aren't, I would advise switching to mixed grip, and just alternating which side you use when it gets heavy. Also, are you doing touch and go DLs? If you're not completely stopping between each one, it's a lot easier to up the number (for example, my DL PR was 455, I reset, and on the first cycle of 5/3/1 got 9 reps at 380ish).

Don't know about bench, I'm not qualified to talk about that.

I am using mixed grip, changing around 7th or 8th rep. I do not touch and go, no "bouncing" of the ground, I come to complete stop between reps.

On the one hand, if you're not planning on competing, your 1RM doesn't matter that much. If you increase your multi-RM, you're stronger.

But my first guess would be technique problems and/or a failure to get properly psyched up for maximal weights

Not planning on competing and I agree, increasing multirm obviously makes me stronger (120kgx5 vs 150kgx11). Technique is of course an possiblity and to say that my technique is good enough would be just arrogant, but I do feel that especially in deadlift my technique is pretty solid. I've done high reps with high weight both hips down and hips up so it's not like my biomechanics completely shut out certain variations of the technique.

I suppose psyching up could be a part of it. I know I do it well on squat and ohp, bench is pretty hard for me to psych up to since it takes relatively long to setup so you can't just put on your war face and attack.

All the percentage/intensity numbers lose their meaning if you are still novice/early intermediate.

This week I 10repped my 3rm on bench press.

If we look at the chart in practical programming detailing levels of advancement in lifts to lifters of certain weight, I'd be advanced in squat and ohp, indermetiate in rest. So I'm guess I'm at least not a novice, probably halfway in intermediate?

EDIT: I forgot to thank you guys for your help So basically you would suggest that I'd get more out of an itermediate program? I've got some texas method excel sheets handy right there, I suppose it would be a good choice?

[yorick]

but then again I recall wendler saying that the program is really for anyone

I'm currently doing 5/3/1, and you are correct, Wendler does say he has used the program for beginners and everyone else. The program you choose has a lot to do with diet, rest, recovery, etc. Whether or not you have exhausted linear gains, and if you don't mind the slower progress of 5/3/1, it's not going to kill you, or make you weaker in the long run. It'll just take you longer to get to a point you might have gotten quickly with SS and GOMAD, or even Texas Method.

Another thing to consider is that SS allows lots of practice with the squat. If you are only squatting once a week and haven't really built a good foundation for the movement, I could see form and technique going to shit for some people.

About your original questions: Try to follow the 5/3/1 book to a T if you stay with the program. Leave a rep in the tank on that third all-out set, etc. Try to make sure you get at least the minimum reps on that third set.

Are you having problems getting the proscribed reps in that third week? If so, you might want to back off the volume on your third sets in the other weeks. Like Wendler said, sometimes it's best to just get the proscribed reps in the third set and call it good. You don't have to go balls-to-the wall.

[samppa]

I'm currently doing 5/3/1, and you are correct, Wendler does say he has used the program for beginners and everyone else. The program you choose has a lot to do with diet, rest, recovery, etc. Whether or not you have exhausted linear gains, and if you don't mind the slower progress of 5/3/1, it's not going to kill you, or make you weaker in the long run. It'll just take you longer to get to a point you might have gotten quickly with SS and GOMAD, or even Texas Method.

Another thing to consider is that SS allows lots of practice with the squat. If you are only squatting once a week and haven't really built a good foundation for the movement, I could see form and technique going to shit for some people.

About your original questions: Try to follow the 5/3/1 book to a T if you stay with the program. Leave a rep in the tank on that third all-out set, etc. Try to make sure you get at least the minimum reps on that third set.

Are you having problems getting the proscribed reps in that third week? If so, you might want to back off the volume on your third sets in the other weeks. Like Wendler said, sometimes it's best to just get the proscribed reps in the third set and call it good. You don't have to go balls-to-the wall.

Thanks for your advice, although I can't put it use right now as I'm moving away from 5/3/1 to something else, not only to find a program that suits my level better but honestly after 7 months it's getting a bit boring.

I suppose backing of the volume on last sets on first two weeks is something I cuold've tried, but I do like to work hard and taking it easy has always been a problem for me. Then again, my current life situation is pretty much perfect when it comes to recovery. Other than lifting I pretty much just study all day long, I always get good sleep and food is no problem either. I find it a bit hard to believe that the first two weeks would have such an impact on the third especially considering how little volume 5/3/1 actually has in the end per lift. Not like I went crazy with assistance work either.