Advantage of Using Slow Increases vs. Fast Increases?

[peacerenity]

Hey Guys,

I'm in the middle of my second time of doing Rippetoe's (the first time I went from 175 to 195 in about 6 weeks, then fell off the wagon for various reasons; this time so far I've been doing it for about 2 1/2 weeks and have gone from 187 to 200) and I had a question about the programming part.

I know that small increases every workout are better than doing big ones and reaching your limit quicker (although the definition of "small" and "big" seem to change depending on what version of Rippetoe's I'm reading), but what is the exact reason for this? How long into the program should I expect my first reset to come? I feel like I'll have to reset on the bench press and press sooner than on the squat and the deadlift.

[tescott]

What's Rippetoe's?

[peacerenity]

Starting Strength, if you prefer.

[scoppi]

(the first time I went from 175 to 195 in about 6 weeks, then fell off the wagon for various reasons; this time so far I've been doing it for about 2 1/2 weeks and have gone from 187 to 200)

187 to 200 what? body weight? squat weight?

I know that small increases every workout are better than doing big ones and reaching your limit quicker (although the definition of "small" and "big" seem to change depending on what version of Rippetoe's I'm reading), but what is the exact reason for this?

Do you know the Greek story of Milo? Milo had a baby cow, and every day he would carry it into town on his back. Carrying a baby cow a couple miles isnt very difficult, but every day the calf got slightly bigger, and Milo got slightly stronger. Milo continued doing this, and eventually was carrying a bull to town.

What do you think would have happened if on day 1 milo carried a 2 month cow, on day 2 a 6 moth cow, and on day 3 a 10 month cow? he'd burn out without making any strength gains. even though he is capable of carrying, the 6 month cow, taking large jumps like that is not productive on a linear progression.

If you start light, take your time, and progress slowly while eating plenty (its said milo ate 20 lbs of meat, 20 lbs of bread, and 18 pints of wine a day), you'll blow your previous PR's out of the water and make huge gains. For the first few weeks you can probably take bigger jumps, but really you should be making 5 lb jumps on your squat, 5-10 lb jumps on your deadlift, 2.5-5 lb jumps on your press and bench.

How long into the program should I expect my first reset to come? I feel like I'll have to reset on the bench press and press sooner than on the squat and the deadlift.

How long depends on each person, mainly, how well you're aiding your recover - ie, are you sleeping and eating enough. If you started at the correct weight, and didn't rush your linear progression, you should be able to progress for ~4 months before having to reset. Your bench and press will stall sooner, this is why microloading is recommended. Take 2.5 lb jumps instead of 5 lb jumps. This will help you maintain your LP. Its a lot harder to get yourself unstuck than it is to avoid getting stuck by taking smaller jumps.

[peacerenity]

The lbs listed were bodyweight. Right now my lifts are at:

Squat: 3 x 5 x 255
Bench Press: 3 x 5 x 165
Deadlift: 1 x 5 x 245
Overhead Press: 3 x 5 x 85
Pullups (substituted for power cleans because I've tried learning them by myself and almost screwed up my back): 7, 3, 1 x bodyweight

I've been doing 10 lbs jumps on the squat, overhead press, and bench press and 20 lb jumps on the deadlift. I think I still have plenty of room to go up on the deadlift, but my bench press, squat, and bench press have gotten to the point where I've had one workout where I haven't been able to finish the last rep or two in the last set, though I was able to complete all the sets the next workout. At this point, I was thinking about slowing down to 5 lb jumps on the squat (especially since I do it 3 times a week), overhead press, and bench press and 10 lb jumps on the deadlift, but I wonder if I should make the jumps even smaller or even back off a bit in weight if I'm already missing reps 2 or 3 weeks in. I guess it depends on how soon missing reps comes before actually resetting.

Diet isn't a problem, since I've been consistently downing about 4500-5000 calories and my weight has been going up a lot, and I've been averaging about 7 hours of sleep per night, but one detriment to my recovery is fencing practice 2 hours a day for five days a week, though it's fairly low-key compared to football practice or something. I'll be done with practice in about 3 weeks though. I also live on a walking campus, so I walk back and forth a couple of miles each day.

What advice do you guys have for me?

[MikeC1]

How tall are you? Unless you're quite tall, there's probably no need to gain weight so quickly.

Judging by your numbers and that you say you can make 20 lb jumps on the deadlift for some time, that likely means you didn't do a very good job finding your starting weight. 5 lb jumps on the squat is a very smart idea, for the reason you mentioned. 15 lbs a week adds up fast. 5 lb jumps on the press (and probably bench also) won't be sustainable for more than a few weeks, if that. If you're missing reps at this point, it's because you've gotten greedy. Why are you in such a rush? It's never worked well for anyone else.

[f4thpathway]

Larger increases are easier to lose and harder to maintain. Solid, steady, maintainable progress is just that. You can jump big for a while and be just fine. Once you have to reset, it may be wise to make smaller increases to be able to hang on to them.

18 pints of wine a day

This sounds amazingly wonderful. Delicious, filling, and more therapeutic than any mood-altering drug on the market.

[peacerenity]

I'm 6'1. My bodyweight increases have slowed down some since I think a lot of the beginning gains were water weight, glycogen, etc. Right now I've slowed down to about 3 lbs a week without changing my diet at all.

As for why I got in a rush, my answer is the same as anybody else's: vanity, rationalized by a need to "get more work done." No real reason other than that.

I should clarify something on the deadlift though: I started low so that I could iron out my form and because right now my lower back isn't as strong as it should be compared to my legs and grip strength (my abs and lower back are also the limiting factor on my squat as well). So far each deadlift workout has seemed fairly challenging, but each workout seems about as challenging as the one before it: i.e., it seems like I'm actually improving at a rate of 20 lbs per workout. I'll probably slow it down to 10 or 15 lb jumps though.

[moonshot]

If there's any question in your mind, I'd steer you towards the lower increases. Think longer term--do the math, how much would your lifts be in 1 year if you did steady 2.5 lbs. increases in every lift? I'm not advising you to do that, but just not to think you've got to go the full 5 or 10 lbs. each time. I've now had 3 injuries from my lifting, and although my being 40 probably has something to do with that, I also think I may have progressed the weights too quickly for my own good, and when I start up again in a few weeks, I'm planning to take the gains slower.

I fenced in college on a "walking campus" as well...I wonder if you are at my alma mater. If you're competing I'd also advise you to take it easier rather than harder until the season is over, there'll be plenty of time post season, over the summer, and in the fall to keep progressing. I'm also curious, has your lifting so far made a noticeable difference to your lunges?

[peacerenity]

That's cool you fenced moonshot! I'm a junior at Princeton. As far as carrying over goes, it's hard to tell so far since the gains in strength I have so far are usually counteracted by not having as much juice left for practice. I've actually noticed a good bit of the other way around, though: my legs are bigger and stronger in proportion to the rest of my body because of all the lunges and stuff, making my squats my best lift. Luckily, practice doesn't seem to be impairing my recovery as much as it did the first time I bulked. I think as long as I'm getting enough food, I'm okay.

I figure for now I'll switch to 10 lbs for the deadlift, 5 lbs for the squat (since I do it every workout), and 2.5 lbs for the bench press and overhead press. It kind of annoys me on the bench press, but I worked it out, and if I stick to 2.5 lbs every "A" workout, my bench should go from 165 to 210 by the time school gets out in mid May, which is respectable.