PTP/ 40 day workout as an intermediate alternative?

[tfarny]

Hi guys:
Yes I'm still pretty dang weak. But I'm doing some reading and starting to think about programming beyond SS, especially programs I can more easily do in conjunction with some swimming and outdoor stuff as the weather improves. Also when I look at my log, my gains are coming more on a weekly level even if I am still super weak, and there's not too much I can change about my recovery at this point.

A 40 day workout / PTP approach is appealing for a number of reasons:
1) very very simple - I love the idea of a single template to run 4 or 5 days/week.
2) very conducive to two a days - quick lift in the morning, run sprints in the evening.
3) offers a potential break from back squatting - I'm someone who needs variety to keep me interested, and constant failure in the squat cage is frustrating.
4) Still it's compound heavy lifts, which I am totally sold on.

I'm specifically considering the 40 day approach - maybe using cleans, chins, OHP, and deads. 2x5 all the way.
I'm wondering though - this type of program sounds effective for increasing your lifting #s, but apparently doesn't build much size compared to standard methods - it's more about neuromuscular adaptation. Right? Greasing the Groove and all that? Is it the opinion of the board that strength gained through this method is just as transferrable to sport and life as strength gained through 531 or TM? Or is getting a higher deadlift "useful" no matter how you get there? Obviously muscle mass is important and I wouldn't mind having more of it, I don't intend to head the bodybuilder route but a visibly strong back and shoulders have a lot to recommend them.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I wouldn't do cleans that way. 5 is a fair amount of volume. Maybe 3,3,3, increasing 10% each time.

[tfarny]

I wouldn't do cleans that way. 5 is a fair amount of volume. Maybe 3,3,3, increasing 10% each time.

Oops, my mistake. cleans sets of 3 for sure. Thanks.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I might squat once a week. I would also think about adding in bench.

something like
dead, press, chin
dead, bench, clean
dead, press, chin
dead, bench, clean
squat, press, chin

When I ran PTP, I would raise the bottom weight, then the top weight. So if I was deadlifting 330, my sets for the week would look like
330x5, 300x5
330x5, 310x5
340x5, 310x5
340x5, 320x5
350x5, 320x5

WHen I reset, I recalculated 10%

[NKT]

Dan John posted some more information on the 40-day program on IronGarm. You might want to check it out before running the program:

Some more information on the Forty Day Workout...

I ran much of the program like he describes in the link above (just finished it) and I am very happy with the results. It is definitely a "grease the groove" type of program, and it will feel very strange to be working out with such light weights. But as long as you can keep your ego in check and don't try to increase the weights too much, the program can do good things for you. I added about 30-40lb to my deadlift while losing about 6lb of bodyweight.

Some observations: I went too heavy for the first couple of weeks and didn't make any progress. After reading some more of Dan's posts, I backed way off on the weights, implemented the varying rep and level-of-effort schemes, and made great progress. Then near the end of the program I let myself get into a hurry and pushed the weights up too fast and stopped making progress again. With the daily training, I felt like I was making great progress when my worksets were around 60% of 1RM.

[tfarny]

Interesting - I thought that "more info" post made the whole thing seem really complicated though. I like Pavel's basic "workout every day if possible, probably 4 or 5 realistically" and "keep the weights comfortable, never fail" and "just do the same workout every time" approach, and test heavy doubles or triples just a couple or few times. I can imagine doing 20 workouts with a dead / OHP focus and then 20 more with a squat / bench focus or something. No way will I get off SS until I hit a 225 squat though - you guys would crucify me!

[NKT]

It's really not as complex as that post made it seem; here are the highlights

1. Work frequently with light-ish weights for two sets of five reps.
2. Every third workout, push just a little harder. Either 5/3/2 reps or six singles. Don't go anywhere near failure, just as heavy as you can while still being comfortable.
3. Do a really light workout the day after the six singles.

Here's the schedule I used:
1. 2x5 (light)
2. 2x5 (light)
3. 5/3/2 (medium)
4. 2x5 (light)
5. 2x5 (light)
6. 5/3/2 (medium)
7. 2x5 (light)
8. 2x5 (light)
9. 6 singles (heavy-ish)
10. 1x10 (very light)
then start over at 1