Novice Effect Questions

[Ardek]

Two questions:

- If you "work out" for a year by just messing around, not accomplishing much and not using an efficient training program, do you lose your ability to take advantage of the novice effect (or rather, has it been used up on the crap you did for a year)?

- Assuming you are an intermediate, should you generally be able to hit the 1RMs of the weightlifting performance standards nearing the end of your intermediate training or right after you finish novice training?

[Les Hahn]

1. I wouldn't think so. Lots of people here have previous crap weight training experience and still do well on SS, assuming they are fully doing the program with diet and rest.
2. Ignore the tables. You will be intermediate when you can no longer make linear progression on a daily basis. Some guys might be able to bench 405 @ 180lbs by doing basic linear progression every time they bench. Others will stall out much earlier and require that gains are made on a weekly basis. It really depends on the person. So don't look at the table and say, well I hit the intermediate strength category, time for me to change programs.

[aa7]

Same. But I DO recall a three part series of articles from Bryan Haycock that described the irrational adaptions to training with relatively high repetitions and to failure, leading to "irreversible destruction (irrational adaptation) of myofibrillar architecture" ...

It's in part one. About 2/3rds of the way down if you cba.

I made the conclusion that going heavy or keeping volume low and frequency high (relative to most typical programs) is the way to go for us who want to get strong more than getting big.

[Ardek]

Ok I see thanks guys

1. I wouldn't think so. Lots of people here have previous crap weight training experience and still do well on SS, assuming they are fully doing the program with diet and rest.
2. Ignore the tables. You will be intermediate when you can no longer make linear progression on a daily basis. Some guys might be able to bench 405 @ 180lbs by doing basic linear progression every time they bench. Others will stall out much earlier and require that gains are made on a weekly basis. It really depends on the person. So don't look at the table and say, well I hit the intermediate strength category, time for me to change programs.

I'm not judging whether I should move on by exactly how much I can bench, I just want to see where I match up with everyone else. I know I'm past SS because I started getting weaker every time instead of stronger and this is after 2 deloads, I made pretty big gains for me but still feel relatively weak compared to everyone else. Intermediate programming is working awesome for me, I just wanted to see just to gauge my own genetics I guess


EDIT:
if it matters im in the early stages of bill starr's 5x5
squat - 5 x 265 lbs
bench - 5 x 175
DL - my DL is very weak i didnt realize I was doing poor form for a long time, currently 5 x 200 but I know I can do way more, also I didn't do SS completely correctly and got injured snowboarding (but still made great gains so i know it's an awesome program)
press - 5 x 115

bodyweight went from 160 lbs to about 200

[Marotta]

You use some of it up, the amount depends on how far you get in the period of fuckery, which depends on the amount of fuckery in the program.

[Eric K]

Ok I see thanks guys



I'm not judging whether I should move on by exactly how much I can bench, I just want to see where I match up with everyone else. I know I'm past SS because I started getting weaker every time instead of stronger and this is after 2 deloads, I made pretty big gains for me but still feel relatively weak compared to everyone else. Intermediate programming is working awesome for me, I just wanted to see just to gauge my own genetics I guess


EDIT:
if it matters im in the early stages of bill starr's 5x5
squat - 5 x 265 lbs
bench - 5 x 175
DL - my DL is very weak i didnt realize I was doing poor form for a long time, currently 5 x 200 but I know I can do way more, also I didn't do SS completely correctly and got injured snowboarding (but still made great gains so i know it's an awesome program)
press - 5 x 115

bodyweight went from 160 lbs to about 200

I don't know for sure, but I'd say the values on the tables are what would be reasonably achieved by someone at that level of programming with a very wide variance granted for individual capacities. But, as was already pointed out, it depends on your ability to recover more than the weights you're moving as to what level of adaptation you're at.