Two-Facto Training Model

[poplawsj]

After reading PPST I don't think I correctly understand the two factor training model.

In PPST Metabolic and structural fatigue is defined as localized intramuscular and synaptic perturbations that is short lived.

while comprehensive recovery process is defined as the collective repair status of the various organ systems.

"for optimal fitness and performance gains the effects of metabolic and structural fatigue must abate before the effects of comprehensive recovery process diminish."

Here is what I think it means: The closer one is to their genetic potential (i.e. the stronger someone is) the greater the application of stimulus (training stress) will need to be; which will make more time to recover necessary.

At some point the time for the body (Comprehensive recovery processes) to recover from the stimulus will be greater than the time for the muscles to recover (Metabolic and structural fatigue). This is where it is necessary to vary the level of training stress so that there are times when enough stress is applied to completely disrupt homeostasis, while at other times apply only enough stress to keep the muscles (metabolic and structural fatigue) from regressing in adaptation while not interfering with the body (comprehensive recovery processes), and still at other times allowing for full recovery.

This is where the concept of “light”, “medium” and “heavy” periods comes in. In training everything should be preparing you to apply that one stimulus that is greater than previous stimuli experienced in order to drive up adaptation. After this “heavy” stimulus is applied adequate recovery must occur, however

the time it may take to allow enough recovery to occur to again apply a stimulus greater than before may cause detraining at the muscular level (Metabolic and structural fatigue) so “medium” and “light” days are needed to stimulate the muscles without hampering the body’s (comprehensive recovery process) ability to recover in preparation for the “heavy” day stimulus.

That last part is the part I'm really confused on. Is what I wrote correct?

I really want to understand this, and understand when the right time is to apply light, medium and heavy days. There has to be some logic to that order.

[poplawsj]

ok now i'm even more confused! :/

[MikeC1]

What's confusing?

[poplawsj]

basically one factor is 'fitness' (strenght in this case) and 'fatigue' (err, as it sounds). an overload event will hit both (each at differing 'levels' depending on training protocol/strategy) and it is the balancing of the peak of the 'fitness' supercompensation curve and the adequate recovery of the 'fatigue' curve.

your saying when you train you are simultaniously making yourself strong and fatiguing yourself? example. I squat heavy, i have then forced adaptation in my muscle, but have fatigued my body. If i wait until i'm fully recovered from fatigue then i'll have missed the peak of adaptation from the adaptation i forced in the muscle?

this is confusing b/c i thought strength came from recovering from the damage you inflicted on yoursel ffrom trainng.

aim to train hard enough to elicit a training effect but don't go over the top and need ages for recovery or the supercompensation peak will have been and gone before you are recovered well enough to train effectively. This is where the more advanced trainees will need to do 'tickover' style workouts to maintain their supercompensation while managing (or at least not completely fucking over) their recovery level.

this makes it sound like it's a matter of training frequency. meaning you have to find the ideal training frequencey. but that doesn't make sens, b/c then why not have an elite lifter only lift heavy 4 times a month? reduce training frequency as you get stronger rather than having heavy, medium, and light.

[Tom Campitelli]

Firstly, you don't need to worry about what advanced lifters do until you become one. That's not to say you shouldn't be interested, but it's nothing to get bent out of shape about. Secondly, you are actually weaker after you squat due to fatigue and the stress you imposed on the body. As you recover, you supercompensate and become stronger. At that point you lift again, only heavier, and the cycle begins anew. As Rip often notes, lifting weights does not make you stronger. Recovering from lifting weights does.

[poplawsj]

I understand recovering from lifting weights is what makes you strong. What i'm confused about are what the two factors are in the model and how they relate.

Reading PPST it sounds like one factor is the fatigue of the nervouse system and the micro damage to the muscle fibers which you recover from faster than the stress your training produces as a whole on your body (immune system, metabolism, organs) which is what is called the "comprehensive recovery system."

From this i was thinking that the idea is that when both factors are fully recoverd you make progress or have a heavy day, but b/c you recover faster from metebolic and structural fatigue (MSF) you have to put in lighter training sessions that do not make much impact on recovering from the comprehensive recovery process (CRP) but extend the time it takes to recover from MSF so that at some point you are recovered from MSF and CRP at the same time and can make progress.

I feel like the above is wrong but i'm not sure how.

calling them fitness and fatigue is confusing to me b/c it makes it sound like when you train you are increasing both at the same time which i no is not true, you fatigue, recover and you adapt from that stress you recovered from. that's the one factor model, right?

[poplawsj]

The two factors are better considered as 'ability of nerves and muscle fibres to create muscle contractions' and 'damage to cells and drained energy systems', where the heavy lifting makes you stronger at subsequent lifting (due to rate coding, intra & inter-muscular coordination plus a bit more) but also damages the components that are responsible for this lifting and burns the necessary fuel to do so (the muscle microtraumas, loss of stored glycogen, creatine phosphate etc) so you need to keep the muscles and nerves ticking over (to prevent the detraining of the ability to produce force) while the body absorbs and replenishes nutrients and repairs the muscles neccesary to produce force.

elite lifter question: if you only train 4 times a month, your body will adapt to doing fuck all for 6 days each week just as much as it will adapt to lifting heavy once per week.

Think of a magic race car engine where the RPM is the 'fitness' and the fuel is the 'fatigue'; the more it revs, the better it adapts to revving and thus will go faster, but this drains the fuel. while refuelling, the engine adapts to tickover speed and thus loses speed, so eventually you will be at a point where you are trying to add a few revs intermittently during the refuelling process to minimise the speed loss but not vastly fucking the refuel. Sorry thats my best analogy at the mo', any better for you?

YES ALOT thank you. i'm not sure i've fully got it yet but let me chew on this for a bit. i may post again on this thread for more clarification after i mull over it for a little while. I really apreciate the help from everyone! thank you.

[poplawsj]

I chewed on it.

So...At a sertain point when your getting stronger the time it takes to recover from a wokrout and "heal" is so long that you don't get enough "practice" at using the muscles to maintain what you've gained between each heavy session.

so light and medium workouts are placed in between which doesn't disrupt the "healing" but still alows you to "practic" so you don't get out of "practice". is that about right? do i understand the concept now?

also, what is the order sapposed to be? Heavy, light, Medium, Heavy? or Heavy, Medium, light, Heavy, or Heavy, light, heavy, medium? or does it not matter really? or what are the affects of changing the order?

AND, a light or medium day can be done be eather reducing the volume, reducing the intensity or both. you don't necessarily have to reduce both. right?

[MikeC1]

Yes, that's more or less correct, but 'practice' is not just for keeping the technique sharp, it literally keeps the muscles ready to lift heavy.

About the order of the heavy medium and light workouts, if I lift Mon Wed Fri, I would order them either heavy-light-medium, or medium-light-heavy, or light-heavy-medium. The medium wouldn't go right before the heavy, unless there's 2 days in between for the weekend.

The intensity should be lowered for the light/medium days, using the same weight as for the heavy days is too stressful to effectively aid recovery, and it isn't necessary when 90% will maintain your fitness and preparation. I usually do 2 sets instead of 3 on these days.

[thebigdog]

Two factor theory is very simple. It states that fatigue and strength (or "fitness") are two seperate qualities, as has already been said. But, the next step is to realize that you can train, and get stronger, while you are still fatigued and not capable of maximal performance. This is the logical conclusion and practical application of two factor theory as opposed to the supercompensation theory, the realization that you can and should (in most cases) continue to train even when fatigue masks your true performance potential.