Hows this program?

[nkelman]

So after reading practical programing I think I'm ready to move to an intermediate program. After having hernia surgery, I'm recovered and lifts are now higher than the where pre-surgery (except squat)

My lifts in order of importance are:

Press
Deadlift
Bench
Squat

I have a physical job being a carpenter, and I have tried to schedule my lifting to my best energy days which are saturday and monday. Wednesdays session is usually average from the weeks fatigue.

Week 1

Saturday:

Bench: 5x5
Deadlift: 1x5+
Dips: 3x fatigue
Curls: 3x12
GHR

Monday:

Press: 5x5
Squat: 3x5
Rows: 3x5
chins: 3x fatigue

Wednesday:

Bench: 5rm, - 10% for 5, - 20% for 3x5
Deadlift: 8-12
DB arnold press: 3x8-12
Chins ladder (1,2,3) x3
GHR


Week two:

Saturday

Press: 5x5
Deadlift: 1x5+
Dips ladder (1,2,3) x3
Curls: 3x12

Monday:

Bench: 5x5
Squat: 3x5
Rows: 3x5
Chins: 3xfatigue

Wednesday:

Press: 5rm, - 10% for 5, -20% for 3x5
Squat: 2x8-12
DB bench: 3x8-12
Kroc row: 1x20
GHR




Thats it. Based on the program in PP, that has 5x5, then test your 5rm on your last training day. Will increase weights when I make the reps on each exercise.

I have been doing the 555+ on grey skull, but I'm sure I need more volume.

Recovery is good, except squats, which still annoy my hernia surgery spot. Squat will become more important to me in time, right now I'm focusing on what I enjoy.

Stats:

Age: 23
Height: 5foot 11
Sleep: 8hours
Weight: 202lbs

Lifts:

Deadlift: 360 - 1x5
Bench: 251 - 3x5
Press: 166- 3x5
Squat: 270 - 3x5

Will this program spur progress on my pressing, and deadlifts?

Im not worried if squat progress is slow.

Wednesdays pressing movement is the bear rip off without continuing to form break down.

The DB pressing I have been doing the last few weeks and has been highly enjoyable, as have kroc rows and GHR.

Well also be doing neck harness work.

Any comments?

[nkelman]

Fuck it, im doing it anyway

[veryhrm]

(Note: i'm not experienced w/ intermediate plans so this is just theoretical) [Edit: i'm actually somewhat experienced w/ them, but i only ever did them as a beginner over the years before i ran into the simple beginner plans like SS :-) ]

Which plan in PP are you going for ? To my eye it doesn't seem to match either TM or Starr or "split routine".

When you say "Based on the program in PP, that has 5x5, then test your 5rm on your last training day" that describes TM in this case w/ Volume day on Sat light day on Mon and high intensity day on Wed ? Then that 5x5 set on Mon , especially if it's heavy, wouldn't seem to fit the bill of low intensity med volume. The 3x fatigue chins is also prob not good there. And heck ALL of the volume on sat is way too high. It's supposed to be some 1RM - 3RM work or "dynamic effort" sets. But in any case high intensity and low volume so that you're not tired for the next volume day. Your Wed sets here have more volume than your Sat volume days.

To me this looks more like a tweaked (and harder) version of a novice program where the overall volume and intensity don't vary much from workout to workout (though you generally haven't noted intensity levels so i'm kind of guessing there). I'm overall not sensing a weekly perioditization.

So to do the TM maybe.... get rid of the Chins on Mon and instead alternate them w/ the Dips on Sat. And make the 5x5 on Mon a 3x5 and make sure the stuff on Mon in general is not too heavy.

Then on Wed just rotate through 1RM to 3RM of Bench/Press , DL and maybe weighted Chins ? That would sound TM to me but maybe you're going for something entirely different here that i just don't see.

[MikeC1]

You'll probably fry your shoulders pretty quickly with how your bench and press are set up. Sometimes less is more.

And you realize your squat and deadlift are low, right? Nothing wrong with doing what you enjoy as long as you're being honest with yourself.

[nkelman]

I know my squat and deadlift are low, as I said squat piss's off my hernia operation scar, and this will also become more important to me personally later. And deadlifts never stalled and I love them, I gots some short ass arms tho. I will how ever push this the hardest, see how they are on my best day, and also the first lift. My lower body fatigues hugely from work, mud, heavy boots, tool belt with framing nails in it, not sitting for 8 hours. No offence, but its hard to squat three times and deadlift once when you deal with that. My upper body fatigues not much and recovers fast. Im trying to work within my means, i dont have the energy to push every lift, so im doing my favourites.

I carry studs, stand up wall frames and constanly have a nail gun in my hand, if by fry my shoulders you mean tire them out, then i think im good. I did 4x5 bench at 108.5kg on saturday, did 5x5 press at 71kg today no worries. If by fry them you mean injure them, im inclined to lower volume, tho they feel good, and always have, including 5 or so years of compeditive national gymnastics.

Intensity will be 5x5 max sets, balls out. Wednesday would be 5rm max test, then take 10% off the bar for another 5. That 10% off is going to make the bar pretty light. Then when I take another 10% off its not going to weigh much at all. Unless you think 5rm max would be enough to stimulate growth when coupled with the 5x5 on monday? Simply increase weight when i make the lift.

3X5 isnt doing anything for me anymore. Im recovering very well. I honestly feel like i need more volume at a high intensity.

As for the chins, they dont fatigue me at all, nore do dips, so I dont mind having one of them in each day. Im previously doing one or the other every day anyway, the only differnce is the ladders for a change.


Thanks for the replys guys, eager to hear what you think in regards to my explaination.

[MikeC1]

if by fry my shoulders you mean tire them out, then i think im good.

Yes, that's what I meant. It's not so much the 5RM day that would be fatiguing (though I wouldn't know if you really need the backoff sets or not), but that you are lifting 5x5 on the Saturday and Monday prior, leaving no time to dissipate the shoulder fatigue. But if you think you're built to lift better that way, that's great. If you don't mind, I hope you keep us updated in your log so other people can see how it works out for you.

If by fry them you mean injure them, im inclined to lower volume, tho they feel good, and always have, including 5 or so years of compeditive national gymnastics.

If your technique is sound and you're taking the right safety precautions, it's pretty difficult to injure yourself with the bench and press. You were a competitive gymnast? That would explain a lot.

Intensity will be 5x5 max sets, balls out. Wednesday would be 5rm max test, then take 10% off the bar for another 5. That 10% off is going to make the bar pretty light. Then when I take another 10% off its not going to weigh much at all. Unless you think 5rm max would be enough to stimulate growth when coupled with the 5x5 on monday? Simply increase weight when i make the lift.

3X5 isnt doing anything for me anymore. Im recovering very well. I honestly feel like i need more volume at a high intensity.

Only you'll be able to find out for yourself. I would just suggest to not get too attached to 5 sets, there's nothing magical about the number. If you find it isn't working to keep making progress and you think 4 sets with a higher weight or 6+ sets with a lighter weight will help, then don't be afraid to experiment.

[nkelman]

Im pretty sure no one reads my log and I moved it to SV. I will how ever update my failure or success here.

Ive been doing DB bench and arnold press with 3x12, and it has def put a bit of muscle on, I feel its harder to go up in weight though and Im sore the next day ( prolly from lack of high reps in my program). I like 5s, if they dont work I will switch it up though.

[veryhrm]

Intensity will be 5x5 max sets, balls out. Wednesday would be 5rm max test, then take 10% off the bar for another 5. That 10% off is going to make the bar pretty light. Then when I take another 10% off its not going to weigh much at all. Unless you think 5rm max would be enough to stimulate growth when coupled with the 5x5 on monday? Simply increase weight when i make the lift.

3X5 isnt doing anything for me anymore. Im recovering very well. I honestly feel like i need more volume at a high intensity.

As for the chins, they dont fatigue me at all, nore do dips, so I dont mind having one of them in each day. Im previously doing one or the other every day anyway, the only differnce is the ladders for a change.

Thanks for the replys guys, eager to hear what you think in regards to my explaination.

What are your goals for your lifting here? Increased strength ? size ? The core concept of TM is that on the volume day your 5x5 or 6x5 or 7x5 causes the main stress that drives adaptation and it's so stressful that it's something that takes 5-7 days to recover from. The light day is there to get the blood flowing and aid recovery and to practice the movements so you don't forget them and the Friday day allows you to measure your gains and provides an extra little umpf, but nothing too serious so that you're all fresh for the beating you'll take on the next volume day.

In your case (at least w/ some modifications like those i suggested previously) you'd be alternating Press and bench from week to week just to give the two related lifts equal time so they would both go up.

As it stands, your program really reads like the beginner program but doing 5x5 instead of 3x5. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, as long as you can recover from it and still make strength gains, you WANT that. The idea behind the need to go to something like TM is that most people can't recover from 5x5 3 times a week.

As a hybrid model you could also try 2 heavy (in intensity and volume) days and then have the third day be light. The idea still being that you don't accumulate fatigue week to week.

Also since you're a gymnast you should be walking around on your hands... possibly up stairs. Why? because that's just cool. Oh and get some rings and replace (some of ) you chins and dips with "muscle ups" because they are also cool.

That's my $0.02 anyway.

[nkelman]

Goals are right now, body weight press for reps. And double body weight deadlift, and eventually 220kg deadlift. Dont care about size much.

I thought about alternating bench/press, but they both regress with basically two weeks break between volume day, if friday doesnt cause an adaption? I thought you had to stress the lift twice a week to build up enough to cause adaption?

Ex gymnasast, I used to be able to do something stupid like 20 muscle ups. Would love to get some and re learn the cross.