(Former) National Champion Who Can't Squat

[ThadBenefield]

Hello-this is my first post in this forum. Mark, despite posting a pretty good raw total at USAPL Raw Nationals in 2008, 2009, and 2010, I still believe I have never learned to squat correctly. I sustained a quad injury in March at a meet on my 3rd squat and tend to accrue numerous smaller injuries during the training of this lift.

I've been told by several sources that my lower back is rounding at the bottom and this is something I've been trying to correct. I also hear that I have way too much forward lean, although reading Rippetoe's literature, this may not be a problem.

I received some advice from a very respected and internationally successful powerlifter who said that I should squat with the bar higher on my back. Unfortunately, for some reason, I am only able to hold the bar really low on my back, or really high, almost on my neck. I seem to be about 5% stronger with low bar squats, although they tend to beat me up more and I feel more lower back strain.

Here are 3 videos for comparison:

High Bar Squat-set 1 of 5 (455x5, first rep missing):
http://www.youtube.com/user/simonatw.../1/eQ9P4AJITIE

High Bar Squat-set 5 of 5 (455x5, very fatigued):
http://www.youtube.com/user/simonatw.../0/adMZakbv5xg

Low Bar Squat (545x2):
http://www.youtube.com/user/simonatw...20/5XpvawRiZ5U

Thanks for the help,
Thad Benefield

[newguy32]

Thad,

I'm not going to give any advice as these are WAY more than I squat. But I don't think Rip usually reads the other forums outside the Q&A. As this is a question I suspect he might be interested in, you might consider posting it there. And Congratulations, if thats a bad squat you'll be scary when you get it ironed out!

[Tom Campitelli]

Firstly, Thad, you are a seriously strong dude. I wish I could move that kind of weight as easily as you do.

You are correct about rounding your back a little at the bottom of your squats and during the ascent. You don't completely fall apart, but there is some flexion of the spine and with the weights you are handling it may well be enough to piss your back off. The first thing to do is drive the knees out more. This will buy you some space at the bottom. On your high bar squats, keep your chest up to maintain spinal extension. Your knees also drift back first thing on the ascent and then come forward slightly about mid way up. Ideally, you will keep them in place at the bottom and then they will smoothly extend during the ascent. Knees out more and chest up will probably be the cues to solve all of that.

I cannot see what your back is doing very well during the low bar squat, but, damn, you move that weight quickly. I am impressed. Get your knees more forward earlier in the movement and then keep them there for the bottom half (descent and ascent) of the squat. If we really wanted to split hairs, I would suggest looking downward as well, although I have a tough time getting on your case for that since you are moving 545 for a double. Looking down may help your back a little since extending the cervical spine under a load can often have some downstream implications.

Whatever the case, your levels of strength hurt my feelings and your squat is pretty damn solid, especially given those poundages. See if getting your knees out and in place helps make your back feel better.

[Dastardly]

Try a wider stance for your high bar squats, it will help you keep your torso more vertical and your low back in better extension.

Examples:




It might feel weird to begin with (or hurt your knees/hips), but if you want to squat DEEP, it is the only way to go. You have a finite amount of ankle mobility and thick thighs. So if you try to force depth with a narrowish stance, you will end up GM'ing (bar in front of centre of gravity) and your back will round. If you just want to squat parallel it is much less of a problem.

[MattJ.D.]

speaking out ankle mobility is there anyway to increase that?...or is it just something you have to develop as a kid and once it sets as you get older your fucked?

Another question about Kendricks squats or more specifically high bar... You don't point the toes out at all or try to shove the knees out? Or is that still dependent on anthropology? I.E. short vs long femurs

Edit: and I'm guessing its ok if your knees come forward on high bar?

[simonsky]

speaking out ankle mobility is there anyway to increase that?...or is it just something you have to develop as a kid and once it sets as you get older your fucked?

Another question about Kendricks squats or more specifically high bar... You don't point the toes out at all or try to shove the knees out? Or is that still dependent on anthropology? I.E. short vs long femurs

Edit: and I'm guessing its ok if your knees come forward on high bar?

i might sound crazy but what i do is i sleep on the end of the bed. meaning, i rest my feet at the edges so that they are perpendicular to my leg.

i had some reoccuring heel pain and stretching my calves didnt seem to do much. i stretch for 2 mins each side but when i sleep they are extended (about 8 hours) so the stretch seems wasted if i'm making sense.

after sleeping this way the pain disappeared.

[Michele Knaub]

i had the same pain for years and learned to sleep this way too; it has really helped.

[Dastardly]

speaking out ankle mobility is there anyway to increase that?...or is it just something you have to develop as a kid and once it sets as you get older your fucked?

Another question about Kendricks squats or more specifically high bar... You don't point the toes out at all or try to shove the knees out? Or is that still dependent on anthropology? I.E. short vs long femurs

Edit: and I'm guessing its ok if your knees come forward on high bar?

Mobility wise you can try, there are various drills, but what you can achieve is very limited. The bone in your ankles develops in a way which prevents the extreme flexion that you see elite lifters doing. But its worth a shot, especially if you feel it is muscle/tendon tightness.

Toes should point where you are comfortable. Generally with wide stances it becomes difficult to point out as it requires a very great amount of external rotation of the femur in the hip, which feels weird and dangerous to most people. Toes out is useful for narrow stances. Knees should be kept from caving in, so some effort should be put into keeping them out but this depends on how much of an issue it is for your personally. It will also help engage glutes.

[MattJ.D.]

Thxs Dastardly just another question knees coming forward on high bar doesn't matter all that much? I know on my lowbar my knees come forward just a little if I go down fast to try to get a strong bounce but I still feel my hamstrings getting worked a lot more than anything else honestly...

Your hamstrings still get worked in Highbar don't they too?

[Dastardly]

Your hamstrings will get worked in a different way with high bar, some might see it as them getting less work. YOu are more vertical in a high bar squat so you cannot sit back/bend over like in a LBBS. This means there is less tension in your hamstrings in the hole, but also because ot this the hamstrings are worked hard to contribute from an effective "dead stop" (lack of stretch reflex). The extreme knee flexion in a deep high bar squat also means there is extra quad stress.