Reply With QuoteI think it's much more likely that the cause of this is your stance being a little too wide. I say this as a general thing, and also based on a squat video of yours from last year.
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Knees Coming in on the Squat: A weak VMO?
I posted this in Rip's Q&A but it may be retarded enough for him to ignore. Given that, I figured I'd repost it here as well. I hope that isn't breaking any sort of etiquette.
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I was speaking to a PT friend of mine recently and mentioned how I was having a hard time keeping my knees out when squatting at max weights. In my scenario "heavy weights" are around 245lbs3x5.
She said that she had the same issue and it was due to a weak VMO (vastus medialis obliquus). She said that the role of the VMO was to keep the knees in position, and that 95% of the time knees traveled in during squats was due to a weakness here (in the context of people who KNOW their knees should be out but can't keep them there at heavy weights).
She recommended doing "sissy squats" to fix this. She described how to do the exercise as:
It is also worth noting that this PT has read Starting Strength and highly recommends it and barbell training and has went to weightlifting meets before. She also understood why I would be skeptical of this but said it really seemed to help. This is why I didn't just blow her off as just another moronic PT.Stand on something slanted, so that your heels are above your toes (you must actually stand on something not just your tippy toes) hold a bar behind you. do squats slow ie 4 secs down 4 secs up, 8 reps. your toes can be pointed straight forward for these and your feet do not have to be far apart.
That said, my tendency is to think that this is more likely to be just a technique issue whose basis does not lie in physiology, and that knees coming in is just a common type of form break down at max effort weights.
I was wondering if you had any insight into this either way.
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I think it's much more likely that the cause of this is your stance being a little too wide. I say this as a general thing, and also based on a squat video of yours from last year.
Member
I see. Should I change the angle of my feet, or just put them a touch closer together? Is this likely to make me likely to make my squat harder or easier in terms of weight lifted (as in, should I expect to need to deload due to this fix)? Thank you very much.Originally Posted by MikeC1
Also, was it this form check: http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=24617
you are referring to seeing?
Brazilian Car Jack
It's bullshit. Elementary anatomy should tell you so.
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Are you willing to educate me as to why?
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No, it's impossible to see your stance from this video because of the camera angle and some obstructions. It was from a couple 2010 videos.
Your feet should be closer together, I would say so that your heels are plumb underneath your buttcheeks (actually your hip joints to be more precise), I mean when standing. This will absolutely make the squat easier for you, it shouldn't need any deload except possibly to get you used to the new feeling, which you can either work out in your warmups or take a day with a lighter weight if you want to be extra cautious.
The foot angle has some room to be flexible, just keep them pointed out slightly, 30 degrees is typical, so that they are aligned with your femurs.
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Do muscles push or pull?
Member
I'll answer this for Carlos. The VMO is a muscle at the knee joint. The muscles around the knee don't have any say in whether the knees are in or out, rather it's the muscles in the hips that determine the femur angle.
Brazilian Car Jack
The insertion of the VM and all four heads of the quadriceps is the same: the tibial tuberosity, by means of the patellar tendon. Did that answer your question?
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Why do you think this would explain anything to him if he thought weak VMs would make the knees cave?
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