Snatch and full squat clean technique question

[xagent]

Hey,

I've recently signed up for coaching to learn how to do Oly lifts.

My instructor says

1. The feet don't actually even leave the ground that much, or only slightly do and kind of just scoot/shuffle out a little. At first I definitely had a "donkey kick" to my clean, and this has been corrected, but I'm wondering what you think? In your book for the power clean I got the idea that the second pull is kind of a vertical jump almost. Is it different for the power versions? I slow-mo'd some Olympic videos and lo and behold, looks like their feet never leave the ground... or only their heels slightly do and they kind of slide it out a few inches.

2. Was told to literally slam against the bar. Enough so that the bar/weight can be heard rattling upon contact. For the clean, this is at about mid thigh during hip extension. For snatch, it slams about near pubic bone/belt line. Other places I've read online either don't mention this technique, or mention the bar just grazing the thighs - not literally slamming into it. Are there different techniques here, both effective? I was told bar will still only minimally travel forward, if at all, especially because of the knee rebend.

All I can say is, FUCK, it hurts. Especially the snatch, when it hits the bony area. And on that note too, is this pain something you just get used to eventually... as your traps/back do with the bar, and your hands eventually with the calluses?

[Mark Rippetoe]

1. The difference is the weight. We teach the clean and the snatch as a jump because there is no other way to teach the necessary explosion. With an empty bar the feet will break the floor by several inches -- if they don't you are not jumping/exploding. When the load gets heavier, the air under the feet goes away and the lateral translation of foot position from pulling stance to catch/squat stance occurs just millimeters from the floor. A "donkey kick" is an incorrect attempt to emphasize the foot movement, when the feet break the floor as an artifact of the upward explosion. An intentional donkey kick always comes at the expense of force and acceleration on the bar.

2. A slam on the bar is a good way to emphasize the explosive aspect of the second pull. The bar doesn't travel forward because the mass of the body rotating back at the top of the pull reacts against the mass of the bar. If you hit your pubis when you do this in the snatch your grip is too narrow. Widen your grip until the bar touches you between pubis and ASIS when you are standing erect in the hang position. If you keep hitting the pubis, you are starting the second pull too early/low, and you fix this by waiting longer/aiming higher on your belly for the slam.

[xagent]

Thanks, so from my understanding then the jump/feet completely leaving the floor is only so because beginners will be using weights very light relative to their bodyweight or because most instructional videos also involve light weights. At heavy weights like in a competition, the weights just too heavy to allow the feet to leave the ground much. Are things for the full squat clean the same as the power clean... in terms of the first and second pull?

As for the slam on the bar... I'm wondering about the mechanics of this. Is it *only* to emphasis extending forcefully (in case newbies extend too slowly or not all the way), or is it actually the momentum of the slam that physically propels the bar upwards? I will try to get wider...

At first I though about stuffing some padding and wearing a cup... but then realized that's probably as sissy as wearing the squat-pad when squatting.

Signed up for a few "personal training" sessions for this at my gym (a real trainer... one that competes), and fell in love with it recently. According to the trainer, Jim Schmitz, and Greg Everett run dedicated Olympic lifting training centers nearby to me. Would it be worth it signing up for one of them at their gyms to get coaching (this would be once or twice a week, in addition to doing Texas Method 3x a week), and would you recommend any of them in particular... or just go by the cheapest?

[Justinnnnnn]

Mark, approximately where should the bar be hitting in a PC? I think I have long arms therefore it hits me at mid-thigh or lower, and feels too low and as such my whole PC feels wrong. I tried widening my grip to get a higher touch but then I think my grip is too wide... thanks

[Mark Rippetoe]

Are things for the full squat clean the same as the power clean... in terms of the first and second pull?

The pulls are the same, especially for a novice. The getting-under-the-bar part is different, but until you learn to finish the pull, don't worry about that.

As for the slam on the bar... I'm wondering about the mechanics of this. Is it *only* to emphasis extending forcefully (in case newbies extend too slowly or not all the way), or is it actually the momentum of the slam that physically propels the bar upwards?

The slam is just a cue to get you to extend knees and hips explosively. The contact is an artifact of the extension.

I will try to get wider...

You mean you will TRY to widen your grip? Is something wrong with your hands?

Signed up for a few "personal training" sessions for this at my gym (a real trainer... one that competes), and fell in love with it recently. According to the trainer, Jim Schmitz, and Greg Everett run dedicated Olympic lifting training centers nearby to me. Would it be worth it signing up for one of them at their gyms to get coaching (this would be once or twice a week, in addition to doing Texas Method 3x a week), and would you recommend any of them in particular... or just go by the cheapest?

I do not actually compete, and neither does Jim. The fact that a guy competes does not make him a trainer. Either Jim or Greg can help you with your lifting. The cheapest is seldom the best anything.

Mark, approximately where should the bar be hitting in a PC? I think I have long arms therefore it hits me at mid-thigh or lower, and feels too low and as such my whole PC feels wrong. I tried widening my grip to get a higher touch but then I think my grip is too wide... thanks

The bar hits in mid-thigh, depending on anthropometry. What makes you think it's too low?

[Justinnnnnn]

The bar hits in mid-thigh, depending on anthropometry. What makes you think it's too low?

It just feels wrong, and too low... I don't know how else to explain it. Maybe I just need more practise.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It just feels wrong, and too low... I don't know how else to explain it. Maybe I just need more practise.

Widen your grip a little, aim higher on your thighs, and see what happens.

[manisstrong]

Are you meant to get bruises on your mid-thigh from slamming to bar into it during cleans?

[Mark Rippetoe]

It happens. Are bruises a problem?

[manisstrong]

It happens. Are bruises a problem?

Yes, I am a model and bruises make me less beauitful.