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Thread: Squat form check...never realized how weak I am.

  1. #1
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    Default Squat form check...never realized how weak I am.

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    Hello,

    I've read the squat, deadlift and press sections in the SS3rd book three times now. In my head I know what to do with squats but as soon as a heavy weight is on the bar it's like everything goes to hell. And I'm weak for a 6ft3 240lbs guy.

    I made two videos. I put my comments from I can see and remember from the feeling of the lift below. Please help me out.

    Problems: I also watched the DVD on squats and don't understand the grip and how these people can have such a close grip and get under the bar. My arms press backwards but then it's like the ROM stops my arms from going back more to put the bar on my back. So I used two grips. A wide grip and a sort of close grip which is not correct, but I can't get under the bar with a close grip.

    I filmed from the moment I rack the bar so I can get opinions on the bar position, and different angles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlrvseBV-lU

    On the above video with a closer grip, my thumbs are under the bar and my wrists bend(sometimes hurt). If I put my thumbs over I can't get under the bar. My arms stop and feels like the ROM of my shoulders/elbows stop me from putting the bar back. Is there another way to do it correctly?
    I don't think I'm going low enough, how do I go lower without getting stuck at the bottom? It's only 215lbs can you believe I struggle with it!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FycWZc2uZRw

    On this video I took a wider grip and this is how I normally squat. It stretches my pecs and shoulders a lot. Either grip doesn't feel right to me.

    Is it okay to squat with a wider grip like I did above? I saw on p29 in the book you can use a wider grip but hurts a little either way. Can you guys also advise me on how you find the correct bar position? I can feel the bone on my shoulder blade, but how do you put the bar under it without using your fingers to feel for it first?


    I don't lift heavy yet. I tried 225 last week and got stuck halfway up on the second set. It sucks because the guys do 315+ on the DVD with a breeze.

    Thanks for the advise I appreciate it.

  2. #2
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    It's probably normal for things to feel stiff/uncomfortable/inflexible if you've been sedentary for a while instead of doing things that require you to move through long ranges of motion. Just try to keep stretching, moving around, experimenting, and it may get better over time.

    But for some specific advice about holding the bar, here are some pointers to keep in mind:
    1. The bar should start at mid-sternum in the rack, you might want to try using one notch lower. The act of ducking down to get under the bar seems to be useful to help get it into the right spot.
    2. The wrists need to be kept straight when you place your hands on the bar before ducking under. The elbows should not be raised at this point - the arms should point back and down at a 45 degree angle.
    3. When you duck under, you should come up under the bar at a 45 degree angle upwards. Imagine heading a soccerball up the field. You need to jab the head and torso up through this angle to force the bar to wedge into the right spot, you'll have difficulty getting it there without this.

    Here, watch this video at 0:40 to see these 3 things in action, so you'll have a good idea of what to look for.

    About finding the spot under your scapular spine, when you are getting the bar on your back, by putting it higher or lower you will feel it run over the bone, you cannot miss it - bar on bone is very uncomfortable. So put the bar on that bone, and then push yourself up a bit more under the bar, so that the bar wedges down past the bone and into your delts.

    "I don't think I'm going low enough, how do I go lower without getting stuck at the bottom? It's only 215lbs can you believe I struggle with it!
    You deal with this by removing weight from the bar. Try 135 for starters, you should be able to easily squat ass to grass (and what feels like ass to grass for you might end up being the correct depth, who knows until you try).

    Another thing to fix: notice at the bottom of your squat how your lower legs are way outside of the line of your femurs. This means your stance is a little too wide. What you want to aim for is to have your feet, shins, and thighs all aligned in the same vertical plane.

  3. #3
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    Thanks MikeC1,

    2. The wrists need to be kept straight when you place your hands on the bar before ducking under. The elbows should not be raised at this point - the arms should point back and down at a 45 degree angle.
    If you pause the first video, where I have a (attempted) close grip, at around 17s - 19s and then pause Rip's video at 56s, there is a big difference. I just tried using a broom and I think my problem is that my shoulders don't rotate far enough backwards. For example, if you stand and put your upper arm at a 90 degree angle with your side, then your forearm points upward toward the ceiling, then if a friend tries to rotate your forarm backwards, so your hand goes back and elbow forward. Mine doesn't even move 2 inches before it feels like my shoulder wants to pop out.

    If you look at my video at 17s or 18s, my forarms are not back and can't get over the bar with my thumb. Is this what you mean with my elbows and arms should point more down and back when I pick up the bar? Not sure if that makes sense.

    You need to jab the head and torso up through this angle to force the bar to wedge into the right spot,
    I tried this again now (we have a gym next door and I work nights), the problem is it feels like because my shoulders can't rotate so that my forearm is more backwards, it stops me halfway through the motion. It doesn't feel like I'm inflexible but rather that my arms can't go back further and hence the furthest the bar goes back is my traps.

    You deal with this by removing weight from the bar. Try 135 for starters, you should be able to easily squat ass to grass (and what feels like ass to grass for you might end up being the correct depth, who knows until you try
    When I watched the DVD on squats, Rip tells one person to not go that low but stop higher. Probably because they went too far down but now the question is how do you know you're low enough? My friend is not always with me to watch. Should you go down all the way till you feel like you can't go anymore?

    Another thing to fix: notice at the bottom of your squat how your lower legs are way outside of the line of your femurs. This means your stance is a little too wide. What you want to aim for is to have your feet, shins, and thighs all aligned in the same vertical plane.
    Do you mean my knees sort of buckle in? If I make it closer, should my toes point out more?

    I appreciate your help thank you.

  4. #4
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    I quickly went next door and tried again. I'm in jeans but I think it didn't prevent me from going low. I hope at least.

    One thing though, when I did these I took a wider grip again and now my elbow hurts. From the below videos, any idea why the right elbow hurts now?

    Looking at Rip's video you posted, it still looks like my bar position is higher than his, when I scoot it down it wants to roll off my back. If I stop it by pressing with my hands it hurts my shoulders and elbow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEqadjD3YvQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMKNvon4wOU

    I've been trying to get the form corrected for 3 months now and reading the book only theorizes it. The bar makes it way more difficult.

  5. #5
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    I have trouble, too, getting under the bar properly. Watching the bar placement video more than once helps. Then comes the flexibility and mobility work for the shoulders: dislocates with a band or broom stick, floor/wall angels, pec stretches.... It will get easier.

    In my novice opinion, your wider grip where you can get your thumbs above the bar and keep your wrists straight is the better one. Otherwise, you carry some of the weight on your wrists and shoulders, leading to weight on the elbows, hence elbow pain. Elbow tendonitis from squatting is very common, just do a search for it here.

    Keep at it!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcknshvl View Post
    I have trouble, too, getting under the bar properly. Watching the bar placement video more than once helps. Then comes the flexibility and mobility work for the shoulders: dislocates with a band or broom stick, floor/wall angels, pec stretches.... It will get easier.

    In my novice opinion, your wider grip where you can get your thumbs above the bar and keep your wrists straight is the better one. Otherwise, you carry some of the weight on your wrists and shoulders, leading to weight on the elbows, hence elbow pain. Elbow tendonitis from squatting is very common, just do a search for it here.

    Keep at it!
    Yeah it feels better if I do it that way. It sucks seeing those people in the squat DVD doing it so easily. Even the big guy in the white shirt has no problem getting under the bar and he's bigger than I am.

    I'm just not sure whether the problem is muscle inflexibility or does it have something to do with my shoulder socket not being able to turn backwards like that. It feels like it wants to dislocate when I try to force my hands like that.

  7. #7
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    Hello again,

    Here is an updated version of my form for the squat.

    I watched some powerlifters and decided to put my elbows down a bit and bend my wrists. I focused on keeping the weight on my back and it felt pretty good. Pleae give me opinions on my form for these two videos. It's my fourth and fifth set.

    Video one:


    Video two:


    Please me your opinion on the following:
    1. bar position on back
    2. bent wrists with weight on back, not hurting wrists/shoulders
    3. stance width
    4. depth
    5. hips

    I appreciate the comments. I don't want to move past 215lbs until I have a "good to go" form you guys.

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    1. bar position on back
    This looks good.

    2. bent wrists with weight on back, not hurting wrists/shoulders
    It's not ideal, but it may be a good compromise for you if it lets you hold the bar securely and pain free.

    3. stance width
    The width is good, but your toes are pointing out a little too much. Bring them in so that they can stay in line with your knees.

    4. depth
    You need to get deeper. Keep your chest up, and let your butt sink down to your heels.

    5. hips
    Didn't notice any problems here.

  9. #9
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    Thanks MikeC1,

    I'll note these next time I squat. I'll post a new video then.

    Is it safe to start to add weight gradually by the way I'm squatting now?

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Sure, provided you start getting your squats deeper.

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