Deadlift stalled.

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

I have been making some progress, however the following seems to happen. I will pull a weight for 5 pretty easily. But, within 2 weeks to about a month, I can't even budge the weight.

My strategy has been to just add weight each week, even if the reps drop below 5. Once I get to only being able to get a single rep at a time, I try to do multiple singles (3-5).

Here's what it's looked like:

8/16/12 410x5
8/23/12 415x3
9/1/12 420x0
9/5/12 420x3
9/14/12 425x2
9/22/12 430x1x3
10/1/12 435x1, 355x5x3
10/6/12 435x0

RESET TO 390x5 ADDING 5 LBS A WEEK

12/11/12 430x5
12/18/12 435x4
12/24/12 440x1x2, 375x5
12/31/12 440x1, 440x0

So, as you can see, I made progress hitting 430x5 when last time I only got it for 3 singles. But, then I only pull 440 for 2 singles, and then next week only 1 single.

Not that rep calculators are accurate, but if I pull 430x5, then it doesn't make sense that I am failing at 440.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Oldman]

Hi, Chad--You are ahead of me, but I have had a similar experience. I would miss an attempt at a given weight, then repeat it the next week. Early on, I would often get the lift for at least 3 reps or even 5. Then the next week, I would add 5 lbs and see how many reps I could get. When 5s no longer worked, I would go to 3s, which would continue for a few weeks with 5 lbs jumps, and then to 2s and then finally to singles (I would just pull one and then do back offs). Most recently I pulled 405 for a single and then the next week (last Saturday) I missed 410. I will try to repeat it this week (maybe even try 2 or 3 singles, as you are doing). Whenever, I stall out--can't get the single two or three weeks in a row--I will cut the weight back to slightly above where I last was able to do 5 reps, and start over with 5s, then 3s, etc.

Sometimes I think that the issue with my difficulties hitting my DL target each week is just one of frequency and recovery. I am not that experienced a lifter, but my thinking was that when my current approach failed to yield improvement, I would try to avoid heavy DLs every week, and substitute them for some rotation of RDLs, Rack Pulls (both of which I am doing now), deficit deads, shrugs, good mornings, dynamic effort DLs, or whatever else might assist. I would then pull heavy every second or third week. I am not sure if this is the most productive, and am open to any other more effective approaches. I am very interested in hearing what other lifters do in this situation. Thanks for starting this thread.

[Tom Narvaez]

A clear regression in performance like this indicates a failure to recover. If it was a lack of volume, a failure to adapt, progress would stall and go no where. You'd continue to display strength instead of build it. When you go backwards like this, it is likely youre pulling in a fatigued state.

The same thing happened to me at the end of LP. What does the rest of your programming look like? Do you power clean? How often and how much do you squat?

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

A clear regression in performance like this indicates a failure to recover. If it was a lack of volume, a failure to adapt, progress would stall and go no where. You'd continue to display strength instead of build it. When you go backwards like this, it is likely youre pulling in a fatigued state.

The same thing happened to me at the end of LP. What does the rest of your programming look like? Do you power clean? How often and how much do you squat?

It's a modified TM template. Volume Day, Assistance, Recovery, Intensity Day. I don't power clean, but I do RDL's on assistance day. I do 5 triples at 90 percent of next ID and I do a triple on ID.

With respect to squat programming, I had reached 350x5x3 like 5 months ago. I fucked my form and couldn't figure out what was wrong and I developed a mental block. So, I reset to something stupid easy like 285x5x3 and built up to 345x5 and just switched to TM for squats 2 weeks ago.

I did 5x5 ascending from 80-85 percent and repeated 345 but only got a triple on my first intensity day. I switched to 5 triples at 90 percent of next ID and ID felt very easy.

[Tom Narvaez]

Did you ever attempt TM without the RDLs? My inclination would be to move to 3x5-8 RDL and reduce the intensity. I think you're doing too much combined work on your assistance and intensity days. The fact youre new to TM with squats suggests to me you may have introduced more volume than you can recover from.

Id do one of these two things: a) deadlift less often, maybe alternate speed pulls or power cleans with deadlifts on a week to week basis. You could also try Rips halting/rack lull combo. B) reduce total tonnage earlier in the week.

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

Did you ever attempt TM without the RDLs? My inclination would be to move to 3x5-8 RDL and reduce the intensity. I think you're doing too much combined work on your assistance and intensity days. The fact youre new to TM with squats suggests to me you may have introduced more volume than you can recover from.

Id do one of these two things: a) deadlift less often, maybe alternate speed pulls or power cleans with deadlifts on a week to week basis. You could also try Rips halting/rack lull combo. B) reduce total tonnage earlier in the week.

No, I haven't done TM without RDL's.

If you think there's too much volume and RDL's are the problem, then wouldn't my pull have stalled earlier?

Right before TM I was doing 3x5 with squats twice a week going from 275x5x3 to 335x5x3 and pulling immediately after the second squat session. My last volume day was 5 triples at 320 (and my 325 tonight). So, total tonnage has been lower since TM.

Also, it seems pulling right after 3x5 squats in the 300's/310's/320's/330's/340's is more fatiguing than pulling after one squat triple at 355.

[Tom Narvaez]

10 triples at 90% is more volume than 3x5 squats. I find that what you did in previous sessions is more relevant to sizable regressions like going from 3-5 reps to 0-1 reps despite adding only 5lbs. Doing 3x5 squats in the same day will cost you ~20lbs on your deadlift but it is a consistent fatigue. You dont "recover" from stress in a global sense during an actual workout.

[ChadTheMeatBeast]

10 triples at 90% is more volume than 3x5 squats. I find that what you did in previous sessions is more relevant to sizable regressions like going from 3-5 reps to 0-1 reps despite adding only 5lbs. Doing 3x5 squats in the same day will cost you ~20lbs on your deadlift but it is a consistent fatigue. You dont "recover" from stress in a global sense during an actual workout.

I don't know if I mistyped something, but I do 5 triples on volume day, not 10.

Regardless, if TM squatting is introducing volume beyond my recovery potential, then I'd think that total squat tonnage would increase compared to LP.

However, for instance on LP recently, if I squatted 330x5x3 Monday and 335x5x3 Friday, that's 9975 lbs of tonnage for the week.

Last week on TM, I squatted 320x3x5 and 355x3 which is 5865 lbs of tonnage for the week.

So, is TM squatting really introducing more volume than I can recover from? I was doing much more tonnage via squatting for weeks before TM.

Regardless, I agree that fatigue is accumulating, but if it's a global/systemic fatigue, then why aren't my other lifts falling off a cliff?

I wonder what would happen if I reset to 90 percent and did a triple instead of a set of 5. Intensity would eventually creep back up, but due to the fact that I'm limiting myself to a triple, I wouldn't accumulate fatigue as fast. Resetting seems counterproductive sometimes, though.

[Tom Narvaez]

You are also doing 5 triples with the RDLs, correct? Ten total triples. Together, thats a much bigger dose of stress.

I find the deadlift more sensitive to lower back recovery than the squat which is why it can fall without concurrent drops in the squat.

[Mutant]

OP, what are you doing for assistance? You need to identify your weakness and turn it into a strength. This is constantly the process.

Tom, do you have video of your your lower back while you deadlift?