Mirtazepine, over training syndrome & insomnia

[Molyneux1234]

Hi,

Apologies if I've posted this in the wrong section.

Around November last year, I started to experience insomnia. I struggled to get to sleep, and when I did would wake up three hours later and be unable to get back to sleep. I also lost the ability to nap during the day. I felt dreadful and was struggling at work.

I am a competitive rower and was lifting and rowing six days a week. On top of this, from May to October, I'd been training for a marathon (my third).

Given the amount of training I'd be doing, I thought the insomnia might be a symptom of over training syndrome. The only problem was that my performance wasn't affected (my lifts had been increasing steadily and I was getting PB erg scores). A drop in performance is a tell-tale sign of OTS.

Nevertheless, I decided to take the month of December off from all training. I also increased my calorie intake from about 3500 to 4000cal/day. I put on about 1/2st (from about 14st to 14st7).

Unfortunately, the insomnia did not improve and I still could not nap during the day, so I went to see the doctor in early January. She felt it was related to depression/anxiety and prescribed mirtazepine (15mg initially then 30mg nocte).

As expected on this medication, my sleep improved. I was able to get to sleep and when I woke up during the night, I was able to get back to sleep after about five minutes. After about a week, and feeling pretty refreshed, I went back to the gym. My lifts felt reasonable but my erg scores were truly dreadful and have continued in this vein. No matter how hard I try, I'm about 10-15% slower. I've now stopped training again altogether.

So...

1) Is the drop in performance a result of the mirtazepine? Does anyone have any experience of training and being on this medication?

or

2) Is the drop in performance a result of taking the month of December off and increased weight?

or

3) Is the drop in performance a sign of over training syndrome?

4) Any ideas on the insomnia? I'd have thought that that would've improved with rest. I know if I wasn't taking the mirtazepine to knock me out, I wouldn't be sleeping at all.

Apologies for waffling on.

Any input would be gratefully received.

28
6'1.5"
14st7lb
DL: 1x5x315
Sq: 3x5x275
Bench: 3x5x175
OHP: 3x5x140

[Tom Campitelli]

As expected on this medication, my sleep improved. I was able to get to sleep and when I woke up during the night, I was able to get back to sleep after about five minutes. After about a week, and feeling pretty refreshed, I went back to the gym. My lifts felt reasonable but my erg scores were truly dreadful and have continued in this vein. No matter how hard I try, I'm about 10-15% slower.

You took a month off and you have been back one week. What exactly did you expect? Conditioning is a very transitory adaptation. Strength is more persistent. This is another data point to back up that theory.

I've now stopped training again altogether.

Work with me here. You want to get better at rowing and right now things don't feel good since you had a month off, so you stopped training. This makes no sense.

1) Is the drop in performance a result of the mirtazepine? Does anyone have any experience of training and being on this medication?

I am afraid I don't know. This is above my pay grade. Maybe someone else will chime in.

2) Is the drop in performance a result of taking the month of December off and increased weight?

You put on seven pounds. That is unlikely to kill you on the erg. You didn't row for a month. This is why rowing feels badly right now.

3) Is the drop in performance a sign of over training syndrome?

Highly unlikely at this point.

4) Any ideas on the insomnia? I'd have thought that that would've improved with rest. I know if I wasn't taking the mirtazepine to knock me out, I wouldn't be sleeping at all.

Insomnia is a bitch. Truly. This will fuck your training up badly. However, it seems like you are sleeping more. I recommend getting laid. A lot. Make it your goal to have sex twice a day. Different people, same person, whatever floats your boat. I bet it will help you sleep. Also, get some sun every day. I don't care how cold it is. Since you gave me your weight in stone, I assume you are from England. I realize the sun does not shine there. Ever. But do your best. Let me know if it works.

I don't have insights into why lost your ability to sleep. I do think that there is nothing unusual about your performance drop off, however. You weren't training. Conditioning evaporates quickly. Fortunately, it comes back pretty quickly, too. Also, your training volume, especially on the aerobic side, was pretty damn awful. My close friend, Kelly, would hit me for saying this, but fuck rowing. It's a miserable sport. Also, as a former distance runner myself, fuck running, too. Lay off the cardio for a while. I realize you don't want to hear that. Get your squat up to 330 for 3x5 and your deads to 380 for 1x5. Put on a little more weight. Have as much sex as possible. Become an expert at making women achieve multiple orgasms. Eat lots of meat. Listen to some Bolt Thrower and Paradise Lost while lifting, two fine English bands. Salt liberally with Rammstein and Helmet. Let me know how things are in six months.

[Molyneux1234]

Tom,

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated. As it happens, I've found a journal article which has clarified some things for me.

Cheers.

[Foobar40]

fuck rowing. It's a miserable sport. Also, as a former distance runner myself, fuck running, too. Lay off the cardio for a while. I realize you don't want to hear that. Get your squat up to 330 for 3x5 and your deads to 380 for 1x5. Put on a little more weight. Have as much sex as possible. Become an expert at making women achieve multiple orgasms. Eat lots of meat. Listen to some Bolt Thrower and Paradise Lost while lifting, two fine English bands. Salt liberally with Rammstein and Helmet. Let me know how things are in six months.

And there we have the introduction for the next edition of SS:BBT.

[hollismb]

You took a month off and you have been back one week. What exactly did you expect? Conditioning is a very transitory adaptation. Strength is more persistent. This is another data point to back up that theory.

Tom speaks the truth. I recall Steve Hill noting during the the programming portion of the seminar that even after a single week off (no activity), that cardiovascular performance drops off by about 10%, so you're right on track, it seems. I took six weeks off running for the first time in several years, from mid-December to late January, and with three short runs per week, it's just now starting to not suck and feel like it's a normal thing, after about three weeks. This was exactly how I expected it to be from past experience.

[Molyneux1234]

Thanks Hollismb.

Unfortunately, what you and Tim have said doesn't chime with my experience of returning to exercise after a period of rest. I have rest periods before and haven't experienced such a drop in performance. Indeed, my erg times now are similar to what they were when I first used an erg machine five years ago. My experience is similar to how I've felt when I was on different medication for a separate diagnosis (a beta-blocker - my heart rate couldn't go beyond a certain point no matter how hard I tried and so my performance was affected), hence why I asked specifically for people's experience of training on mirtazepine.

[Tom Campitelli]

Back when I used to run, ceasing to train resulted in a rapid performance decline. However, you may well be correct that this drug is making things worse.

[Dunk]

"I recommend getting laid. A lot. Make it your goal to have sex twice a day"

This is way to much volume, especially if you're not used to it.

[Tom Campitelli]

I figured it would help him sleep.

[lewabbit]

"I recommend getting laid. A lot. Make it your goal to have sex twice a day. Different people, same person, whatever floats your boat. I bet it will help you.but fuck rowing. It's a miserable sport. Also, as a former distance runner myself, fuck running, too. Lay off the cardio for a while. I realize you don't want to hear that. Get your squat up to 330 for 3x5 and your deads to 380 for 1x5. Put on a little more weight. Have as much sex as possible. Become an expert at making women achieve multiple orgasms. Eat lots of meat. Listen to some Bolt Thrower and Paradise Lost while lifting, two fine English bands. Salt liberally with Rammstein and Helmet. Let me know how things are in six months.[/QUOTE]

You are a god, Il Duce. We bow down to you.