fencer's absolute novice log

[fencer]

INTRO

Hey all. I thought I would join the forum and start a log to keep track of my progress. I am 25, 6’1 tall and weigh 73 KG (always been on the skinny side). Despite being a stranger to the gym I’ve always loved sport and am a naturally athletic guy (but not a naturally strong one). My main sport is fencing. I compete at a national standard and have a decent ranking, but my goal is to reach an international level. SS actually seems like the perfect base for S&C as squats and cleans are perfect exercises for fencing. My body seriously lacks strength in certain areas and has many muscle imbalances which are holding me back.


OBSTACLES:

Knee pain: Right now I have a very serious case of Chondromalacia patella in both of my knees. I’ve seen a physiotherapist, done the exercises and it’s only helped a little. This condition will no doubt slow my squatting progress down but I will aim to do what I can and keep up some light physiotherapy alongside it. If this fails to cure them my only remaining option surgery.

Fencing (Competitions & Training): Outside the gym I have 3 fencing sessions a week (although I am cutting down to two due to my knees – and whilst fencing I am resisting movement as you are always in a partial squat in fencing). I also have around 10 competitions a year but they are often concentrated meaning some months I have 2 in a row and other times I have a couple months off.


GOALS:

I’ve never properly squat or benched more than 40KG so I will start pretty much from the bar. One of my big goals is to increase my body weight to the ideal figure of 80-84KG. This means gaining 7-11KG of muscle. I’ve seen one elite fencer with PB’s of 165KG squat, 95KG bench press, 95KG cleans. Not too bad considering they really weren’t ‘a big guy’ (84KG). They also did a lot of clean and jerks/snatches which I’ll look into in the future. For now I’ll focus on just increasing my lifts.


N.B!
• I’m doing 5x5 not 3x5 at the moment since the weights are all very low.
• I can’t do cleans in my gym as there is no space to do it safely. At some point I will need to find a gym where I can do cleans. Till then I’m not 100% sure what extra exercise I could do.
• I still need to finish reading the SS book. I’m working my way through it now but don’t want to delay starting the program.


Start (12 October 2015):
Height: 6' 1 (185 cm)
Weight: 73 KG (162 lbs)

Squat: 30 kg ( 66 lbs)
Bench: 35 kg (77 lbs)
Deadlift: 40 kg (88 lbs)
Press: 20 kg (44 lbs)

Thanks for reading. I’ll post my progress weekly so expect something by the end of the week.

[bean counter]

Hello and good luck. Don't be afraid to post form checks to the technique section if you're unsure about performing any of the movements.

No need to do cleans immediately, you can deadlift every session until it gets tough and starts to impact your recovery.

[peez]

Welcome to the forum!

Till then I’m not 100% sure what extra exercise I could do.

I wouldn't do any just yet - focus on the main lifts and getting your form dialed in. It'll get hard soon enough. A month or two in you can add accessory exercises like chins, dips etc. but for now I'd stick with the program. Squat form is especially important when you have knee issues. I started SS as part of rehab after knee surgery, and it helped tremendously.

Don't focus on any subset of the lifts for at least 6-12 months - build an overall strength foundation first with squat, DL, press, bench and cleans. DTFP. More strength = more speed (almost entirely, but that debate could fill volumes). It's all useful, for fencing, any other sport, life and everything else (not that I know anything about fencing).

I assume you have the book. Study it. As you are a young high level athlete, you can probably reach 165kg squat, 95kg bench and cleans in 6-12 months. Maybe sooner.

Good luck!

[fencer]

Hello and good luck. Don't be afraid to post form checks to the technique section if you're unsure about performing any of the movements.

No need to do cleans immediately, you can deadlift every session until it gets tough and starts to impact your recovery.

Ah yes. I won’t be afraid of posting form checks although I don’t have a camera and my phone camera is busted. I’ll try and figure something out long term. And thanks, will DL every session for now!

Welcome to the forum!

I wouldn't do any just yet - focus on the main lifts and getting your form dialed in. It'll get hard soon enough. A month or two in you can add accessory exercises like chins, dips etc. but for now I'd stick with the program. Squat form is especially important when you have knee issues. I started SS as part of rehab after knee surgery, and it helped tremendously.

Don't focus on any subset of the lifts for at least 6-12 months - build an overall strength foundation first with squat, DL, press, bench and cleans. DTFP. More strength = more speed (almost entirely, but that debate could fill volumes). It's all useful, for fencing, any other sport, life and everything else (not that I know anything about fencing).

I assume you have the book. Study it. As you are a young high level athlete, you can probably reach 165kg squat, 95kg bench and cleans in 6-12 months. Maybe sooner.

Good luck!

Thanks for the welcome! I’ll definitely focus on the core lifts and basic program. I’ve messed around with other routines in the past (given to me by ‘certified’ gym instructors) which looking back now are just absolutely laughable. Whilst I’m good at my sport and have natural athletic qualities, lifting heavy weight is really a new thing for me. All the latest S&C research around fencing points to lifting heavy weight to increase speed and prevent injury.

I’ll be damned if I get to where I want to be in a year, but I’ll just keep focused on what I’ll be lifting on my next work out.

[fencer]

First week done, details below!

12 October 2015

Squat
20 kg: 1 X 5
20 kg: 1 X 5
30 kg: 5 X 5

OH Press
20 kg: 1 X 5
25 kg: 4 X 5

Deadlift
40 kg: 1 X 5


13 October 2015
Fencing session done. Session was ok. My knees we relatively pain free (although I tried not to push them too much). I had a lesson at the end and my right arm was tensing up a lot causing bad point control. Can be corrected by not holding weapon too tight and increasing my arm strength.


14 October 2015

Squat
20 kg: 1 X 5
20 kg: 1 X 5
32.5 kg: 5 X 5

Bench Press
20 kg: 1 X 5
30 kg: 1 X 5
35 kg: 5 X 5

Deadlift
50 kg: 1 X 5


16 October 2015

Squat
20 kg: 1 X 5
20 kg: 1 X 5
30 kg: 1 X 5
40 kg: 3 X 5

OH Press
20 kg: 1 X 5
25 kg: 5 X 5

Deadlift
50 kg: 1 X 5


Comments

Not a terrible first week, my form is not bad but needs work across the board. The biggest take away is that whilst my knees do hurt from CMP - they aren’t hurting during the exercises. I decided to increase the weights a little to test how my knees are feeling. I’ll do the same next week and then calculate my warm up sets a little more accurately. Still working my way through the book and also downloaded the SS app just now.

From next week I’ll start posting my sessions each day to make my life easier.

[fencer]

Hard that you don't have an in and out season. 5x5 might not be the best if you are also actively fencing, you can always add more volume later. What days are your sessions? I'd also skip out of any "group strength" work, situps/pushups/etc. Depending on the group (my fencing club was more of a social & drinking thing with a fencing problem) it might make you seem arrogant/aloof. Good luck, and I expect to see your squat blast past that bench really, really quickly.

Hey, thanks for the reply. My initial intention was to keep up 5x5 whilst the weight is low, but I’m thinking I might as well progress the weights slightly quicker and go 3x5 with a decent warm up.

Fencing sessions are Tue, Wed, Fri so both my lifting and fencing sessions can be ‘moved around’. For now I’ll just make sure I make 3 lifting sessions a week and try and get 2 fencing sessions in around it. The fencing club has S&C on the Thursday which is worth watching for ideas but it’s cool just sitting it out.

I hope my squats progress quickly too as I seriously need to build some muscle around these knees and hope that sorts my knee problems out. Also whilst competitions and ranking is the most important long term goal, I’m going to prioritize getting stronger this season so by next autumn I’m in shape to really push my national ranking.

Thanks again!
fencer

[belowparallel]

Welcome... in case you haven't come across it, coach Rip wrote an article about strength training for fencing.

https://aasgaardco.com/files/scf.pdf

What weapon do you fence? I fenced in college at a good program and in retrospect wish I knew about strength training in general, and this program in particular, back then (although back then the book wasn't out).

There's no question but that an ability to squat and pull weight will make for more explosive lunges / fleches and also improve the integrity of your stance and footwork generally. And obviously improved grip, arm and shoulder strength will follow too. If you're competitive at your current strength levels this stuff could give you a huge edge.

[fencer]

Welcome... in case you haven't come across it, coach Rip wrote an article about strength training for fencing.

https://aasgaardco.com/files/scf.pdf

What weapon do you fence? I fenced in college at a good program and in retrospect wish I knew about strength training in general, and this program in particular, back then (although back then the book wasn't out).

There's no question but that an ability to squat and pull weight will make for more explosive lunges / fleches and also improve the integrity of your stance and footwork generally. And obviously improved grip, arm and shoulder strength will follow too. If you're competitive at your current strength levels this stuff could give you a huge edge.

Wow, Rip wrote this article!? I found it years ago and never really understood it or absorbed it. A few months back I started looking for S&C articles on fencing and found it once again. It actually (unsurprisingly) has a lot in common in a paper written by the previous head of S&C at British fencing (Strength and Conditioning for Fencing : Strength & Conditioning Journal ) I’ll certainly look into the more specific programs once I’ve exhausted the novice starting strength program. Funny how things go full circle.

I also fence epee!

[fencer]

19 October 2015

Squat
20 kg: 2 X 5
35 kg: 1 X 3
45 kg 3 x 5

Bench Press
20 kg: 2 X 5
30 kg: 1 X 5
40 kg 3 x 5

Deadlift
60 kg 1 X 5


Thoughts: My knee condition is pretty bad. It hurts walking, it hurts resting, it pretty much always hurts but it’s not holding my lifts back at the moment. I have a fencing competition in two weeks, so for now I’ll keep progressing the weight but give myself 4-5 days or so rest from lifting before the competition. (Or do a ‘light’ workout).

Whilst I eat healthy, I still need to improve my diet by adding some more protein, carbs and calorie counting. Might get some time this weekend.

[aw82]

Thanks to this thread, my interest in trying fencing has really piqued. I'm 6'4" with long arms so anything in which I have an unfair advantage is automatically appealing to me

I'm also not highly coordinated, agile, or quick on my feet, so training for fencing once I've completed my novice phase of strength training could be good for me (e.g., strength training, some cardio/HIIT/sprinting, some agility such as rope jumping, etc....all of which are appealing to me) and then give me a way to put all that together in a competitive setting. Seems like it really requires/rewards flexibility and explosiveness.

There's a three-weapon club near me that teaches private lessons for only $25 a pop so I think I'll try it out.