Vegans and other socialist vegetarian types

[transom]

What's up with the veg-bashing abundant in these parts? Like I get it, its the SS forums, everyone seems to shit on something for a bit of fun. But is it really just light-hearted humour or do coaches and experienced lifters actually believe it makes that much of a difference by default? Now I'm not a dietitian, but the flak seems pretty stupid.

I went vegan just before I turned 16 and nothing dramatic has changed, besides the fact I don't get hemorrhoids anymore. I started SS in March last year, and although my training was casual, on and off, and I had a lack of competence and coaching, I can't say it hindered me making progress, my squat went from a one rep max of ~60kg/132lbs to 135kg/298lbs in just over six months worth of training, which seems standard. I started at just over 64kg/141lbs and am pretty similar in body fat compared to now at 77kg/170lbs. I'm not strong by any standard, but I'm not a bloody undernourished, anemic, fluffy kitten.

I get just over 160g protein a day. I eat a lot, keep the processed carbs low and drink half a gallon of soymilk a day (no soy titties and my dick works just fine), I always exceed 3000 calories. I take my B12 once a week and occasionally have some algae based EPA/DHA oil. 5g creatine and 10g EAAs before I go to bed. No big deal.

Thoughts? Am I just getting my soy-titties in a twist? Any other socialist vegetarian types on this forum?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

What veg bashing do you mean? If you're under the impression that strength and LBM increases would be the exact same w/ a vegan diet compared to an omnivorous diet then you are sorely mistaken. Also, soy products causing estrogen-related side effects is 100% bro-science and I have never said anything suggesting it would be "bad".

Also, you're not really in any position to say your results weren't hindered, you know? As an previously untrained 16 year old quite literally swimming in the sea of testosterone- you are the most sensitive you'll ever be to amino acids, so I wouldn't expect there to be a huge difference in 6 months worth of training. I would expect you to do slightly better over time, which will continue to be magnified over time.

So, are you getting your soy-titties in a twist? Seems to me like you're looking for a conflict where there isn't one. It's pretty clear cut to me, however, that if you want to be the strongest version of yourself- you're not going to accomplish it being a vegan.

[transom]

It's pretty clear cut to me, however, that if you want to be the strongest version of yourself- you're not going to accomplish it being a vegan.

Well that's sort of it. Why?

I get that my protein intake is going to need to be a little higher in that my food will generally contain a little less of the EAAs.
I get that I don't consume dietary creatine, so I increase my dose from 3g to 5g.
I get enough calories to put on weight, and I can easily increase my calories if I want to.

What am I missing? Not looking for a conflict.

[mrflibble]

I started SS in March last year, and although my training was casual, on and off, and I had a lack of competence and coaching, I can't say it hindered me making progress

I had a skim of your log and I really can't agree. Your progress has not been good. An 18 year old who has been training for "over a year" should not be on TM struggling with a 65kg RDLs, a 60kg bench, and a DL in the low 100kgs. No doubt there may be multiple factors contributing to your poor progress, but you're not really in a position to assert your veganism is not one of them. Perhaps try eating milk and meat for a few months and see what happens?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Well that's sort of it. Why?

I get that my protein intake is going to need to be a little higher in that my food will generally contain a little less of the EAAs.
I get that I don't consume dietary creatine, so I increase my dose from 3g to 5g.
I get enough calories to put on weight, and I can easily increase my calories if I want to.

What am I missing? Not looking for a conflict.

Your essential amino acid intake (and BCAA intake) is much lower than it otherwise would be and your calories are not high enough.

I had a skim of your log and I really can't agree. Your progress has not been good. An 18 year old who has been training for "over a year" should not be on TM struggling with a 65kg RDLs, a 60kg bench, and a DL in the low 100kgs. No doubt there may be multiple factors contributing to your poor progress, but you're not really in a position to assert your veganism is not one of them. Perhaps try eating milk and meat for a few months and see what happens?

Well, this sort of changes my thoughts then for sure.

[transom]

Jordan, just sent you a PM. Please check your inbox!

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Jordan, just sent you a PM. Please check you inbox!

Yea I saw it. I'll leave it for funsies.

[transom]

Yea I saw it. I'll leave it for funsies.

Assuming that I stick to a plant based diet despite any other factors, and go back to do SS properly, what measures can I implement to improve my diet? Do you believe 20g of supplemental EAAs would bring me to an optimal level of EAA and BCAA intake? I generally eat a lot of soy, legumes and wholegrains. Do you believe 5g of creatine is enough to counteract the lack of dietary creatine?

[transom]

Well, this sort of changes my thoughts then for sure.

Yeah, this was a pretty dumb post, but here are my stats as of last night:

Age: 18
Height: 174cm
Weight: 80kg
Body fat: ~18%

Squat 5RM: 120kg
Bench press 5RM: 75kg
Deadlift 5RM: 120kg
Press 5RM: 55kg

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Assuming that I stick to a plant based diet despite any other factors, and go back to do SS properly, what measures can I implement to improve my diet? Do you believe 20g of supplemental EAAs would bring me to an optimal level of EAA and BCAA intake? I generally eat a lot of soy, legumes and wholegrains. Do you believe 5g of creatine is enough to counteract the lack of dietary creatine?

I don't think the lack of dietary creatine is a big issue at all (esp. w/ supplementation). Thing is, there has been some data showing an increased trend towards more muscle mass w/ increased daily EAA levels. Admittedly, most (if not all) aren't statistically significant and a sort of threshold above which no further improvement is seen has not been characterized. That said, I think the most practical strategy is eating more EAA/BCAA rich foods. As a vegan, I'm not sure how you would do this to be honest. Idk if 20g is "enough" or what number would make me feel good about your chances, really.