Consumption between meals

[Lanceteer]

Hi Jordan, thanks for hosting this subforum, I've learnt so much that has helped my training. I have two questions about putting things down my mouthhole between meals.

1. You discourage snacking because it is not optimal for the frequency of muscle protein synthesis. The mechanism as I understand it is that the snack's digestion gradually raises serum amino acids before it has returned to baseline, extending the refractory period and disallowing resensitisation of the MPS-triggering biochemical pathways. What do you think about snacks that have minimal protein/amino acids, such as an apple? Would they interfere with optimising MPS frequency?

2. I understand that BCAAs between meals is a good idea because they abruptly spike serum amino acids to a supraphysiological level, and when taken ~90 minutes after a meal can prolong the ongoing bout of MPS. However, wouldn't this also prolong the refractory period since the serum amino acid level is now higher and will take longer to get back to the level where the pathways can be resensitised? Why is the next meal's timing not affected (ie. still 3-5 hours after the previous meal)?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

1) There are other mechanisms in place that are involved in the MPS response independent of aminoacidemia. On the other hand, there's some evidence suggesting that carbs taken in between meals can push MPS like BCAAs do.

2) The rate and height of the aminoacidemia secondary to BCAA intake is so great that it overcomes the refractory period

[Elephant]

2) The rate and height of the aminoacidemia secondary to BCAA intake is so great that it overcomes the refractory period

As an example, you take a 25g scoop of whey protein at 8:00, a 10g of BCAAs at 10:00 and another 25g scoop of whey at 12:00. Absent the BCAAs, presumably each of the two doses of whey would trigger MPS, being large enough and separated by enough time. You're saying the aminoacidemia from the scoop of BCAAs is sufficient to overcome the refractory period following the first scoop of whey. What of the second scoop of whey - should you have waited at least 3-4 hours after the BCAAs or is it enough to trigger MPS anyway?

[Lanceteer]

2) The rate and height of the aminoacidemia secondary to BCAA intake is so great that it overcomes the refractory period

I get that this would further stimulate MPS, but would this restart another 3 hour refractory period? ie next meal needs to be 3 hours later to trigger another bout of MPS

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

As an example, you take a 25g scoop of whey protein at 8:00, a 10g of BCAAs at 10:00 and another 25g scoop of whey at 12:00. Absent the BCAAs, presumably each of the two doses of whey would trigger MPS, being large enough and separated by enough time. You're saying the aminoacidemia from the scoop of BCAAs is sufficient to overcome the refractory period following the first scoop of whey.

Yes.

What of the second scoop of whey - should you have waited at least 3-4 hours after the BCAAs or is it enough to trigger MPS anyway?

No. MPS will go anyway.

I get that this would further stimulate MPS, but would this restart another 3 hour refractory period? ie next meal needs to be 3 hours later to trigger another bout of MPS

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

Nope bc the rate of BCAA increase and then disappearance is quite fast form free form BCAAs.

[Lanceteer]

You're a top bloke Jordan.

[quad]

I don't know if it has been asked before but: what happens if I eat 60 grams of protein instead of 30 grams spaced 3 hours apart. It will not yield the same MPS will it?

[Lanceteer]

I don't know if it has been asked before but: what happens if I eat 60 grams of protein instead of 30 grams spaced 3 hours apart. It will not yield the same MPS will it?

The 60g will yield one bout of MPS that will last 2-3h after the meal. The 30g meals will each yield one bout of MPS that last 2-3h after each meal, so a total of two MPS bouts. This is assuming that all protein meals have 3-4g of leucine in them. So yes, it will not yield the same MPS. Two 30g protein meals is more optimal.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I don't know if it has been asked before but: what happens if I eat 60 grams of protein instead of 30 grams spaced 3 hours apart. It will not yield the same MPS will it?

The 60g will yield one bout of MPS that will last 2-3h after the meal. The 30g meals will each yield one bout of MPS that last 2-3h after each meal, so a total of two MPS bouts. This is assuming that all protein meals have 3-4g of leucine in them. So yes, it will not yield the same MPS. Two 30g protein meals is more optimal.

Yes, unless he meant 2 60g protein meals spaced 3h apart.

[craze9]

So if I take 10g BCAAs as my post-workout drink, what's the soonest after this I can eat my next "real" meal? 1.5 hrs? Or can it be even sooner?