Benching with olympic barbells

[Irtahk321]

Rip,

I go to a commercial gym, nothing special. There are a few bars with higher quality knurling that are used for benching albeit with slightly thicker diameters than some of the other barbells available in the facility.

I've been benching for a while (with form checked and approved by a SS coach) with no problems. Last week, I decided to experiment with one of the less thick barbells for benching (no center knurling). When I hit a good working set weight (250), I noticed the barbell had a tendency to rotate freely/easily while I pressed, causing my wrist to roll forward and me to ultimately stop the lift. It scared the shit out of me. The barbell should not swivel/roll forward or backwards, and I don't want to die while benching.

My research suggests the bars with 'greater sleeve spin' may be better suited for olympic lifts, but I wanted to see if (1) you/other SS coaches have experienced this before, (2) how to tell when a bar has too much sleeve spin and should be avoided for heavy pressing and (3) whether you advocate using a separate bar for pressing vs cleaning. I'm not sure if this was an olympic barbell or just a cheap piece of iron.

Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

First, if the sleeve spins freely, the plates will not be spinning when you unrack the bar, because they have stabilized between the time you load them and the time you unrack the set. Second, the sleeve is designed to spin so that the rotational momentum of any plate movement is not transmitted to the bar itself. This is the reason for the design. I think you are using a shitty bar with frozen bearings or bushings. Lube it.

[Scaldrew]

Second, the sleeve is designed to spin so that the rotational momentum of any plate movement is not transmitted to the bar itself. This is the reason for the design.

Is this because the hole in the plates isn't the same size as the sleeve so there's not full contact or due to something else I know nothing about but would like to learn?

[Mark Rippetoe]

No, 100% contact between plate ID and sleeve OD isn't either necessary or possible. The sleeve is supposed to rotate so that the bar shaft doesn't have to.

[Scaldrew]

No, 100% contact between plate ID and sleeve OD isn't either necessary or possible. The sleeve is supposed to rotate so that the bar shaft doesn't have to.

Ah, I was too focused on the sleeve and forgot that the bar shaft isn't supposed to be spinning. I thought there was some reason why the plates spinning wouldn't cause the sleeves to start spinning and I couldn't square the circle. Brain fart.

[MBasic]

Some other competent lifters have also noted the so called wobblyness, of flat benching with a good bearing bar.

I myself, do not like it, and have experienced the wobblyness. Did not like.

But I'm not a good bencher / lifter I know. Probably doing something wrong with the grip, hands, forearms angle.

Checked it to see if it was bent, nope. Straight.

Weird though, I overhead press with a bearing bar without issue.

I use thumb-around grip in both lifts. Bar sits in heel of palm when I bench (as much as possible)

[Irtahk321]

First, if the sleeve spins freely, the plates will not be spinning when you unrack the bar, because they have stabilized between the time you load them and the time you unrack the set. Second, the sleeve is designed to spin so that the rotational momentum of any plate movement is not transmitted to the bar itself. This is the reason for the design. I think you are using a shitty bar with frozen bearings or bushings. Lube it.

In this case, it seemed as if the bar shaft had a tendency to spin - is that a bearings/bushings issue as well? A spinning bar shaft seems to be exacerbated by spinning sleeves (no force transfer from weights to stabilize the bar)? Apologies for my ignorance on this issue. Would be great to immediately identify a shitty barbell (by spinning the sleeves/shaft) without having to load a bunch of weight on it and attempting to press it first.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Some other competent lifters have also noted the so called wobblyness, of flat benching with a good bearing bar.

I myself, do not like it, and have experienced the wobblyness. Did not like.

I don't like cleaning or snatching with a really spinney Eleiko bar. Same thing, I think: there is no dampening effect from the tiny bit of resistance a bushing supplies.

[Irtahk321]

Just to close the loop on this thread:

Should a barbell shaft spin if you hold the sleeve? How much rotation is too much rotation?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I don't know what you mean. All of us hold the bar so that the sleeve spins.