I'm not Smart Enough for RPE

[crookedfinger]

This is a sincere post and I am willing to admit my ignorance and/or lack of smarts in posting this. I have done a whole lot of reading around RPE. I have read a big chunk of the RTS Site, along with Powerlifting to Win, and various other links/articles/interviews I have found on my own and that have been provided in these forums.

I get RPE as a concept and I see its value when it comes to monitoring/journaling one's training, but what I absolutely cannot wrap my head around is how to program using RPE. It feels entirely too ubiquitous and squishy. Additionally, it seems like so much of it is geared towards meet prep/competition lifting and testing a lift vs. slow long term progress.

I understand that where I am at in my training, I am a bit of an anomaly in that I have not been bitten by the competition bug and I don't care about other sports/activities and just care about getting under the bar 3 times a week and getting stronger. That said, can you guys and gals that really get how to program using RPE shed some light on it for us idiots.

I asked Jordan a bit about it here: http://startingstrength.com/resource...continued.html, but don't feel like I am getting it.

So, how the hell do you use an RPE based program to program lifts for the general strength enthusiast who just wants to keep getting stronger?

[Brodie Butland]

Think of RPE as a guide, not the focus. For example, in my current programming I work up to three ramping sets of 4 @RPE 7, 8, and 9 respectively. RPE 7 means I have about three reps left in the tank, RPE 8 means about two, and RPE 9 means I probably had one rep left. I then do backoff sets of 4 at a little over 90% of my top set with no more than 6 min rest in between, until the last rep of a given set feels like a 9 (typically the second backoff set, sometimes a third).

I probably couldn't give the precise difference between a 6.5, a 7, a 7.5, or even an 8. However, if I am on an RPE 7 set and am not sure I had a rep left, that means either I'm having a shit day or I overshot. Similarly, if I'm on an RPE 9 set and it's easy, I probably undershot.

As a practical matter, I just look to increase at least the top set (RPE 9) by 5 lbs a week (5-10 lbs/week for the deadlift), and the other numbers (RPE 7 and 8) get adjusted to account for the increase at the top...obviously the higher my top set, the higher the sets below it will be. As a general rule, this usually puts my top set around the RPE 9, and the sets lower than it at around RPE 7 and 8.

For example, I might do 345x4 (RPE 7), 375x4 (RPE 8), and 400x4 (RPE 9) one week. The next week, the top set will increase to 405x4, and then I'll adjust the lower weights to account for the increase...I might increase them (say, 350x4, 380x4), I might increase only one of them (say, make the RPE 8 a 380x4 but leave the first one as is), or I might leave the lower two around the same (unlikely, but I've done it when I believed I overshot the lower sets the previous week). I might even leave the top set as is if the previous top set was really, really difficult (for example, if it was a maximal effort grind with nothing left afterwards).

As I said...not an exact science, but it's a pretty decent guide. It also gives you a mechanism to account for bad days where things are just too grueling...if you're having a bad day, then reduce the weight to around the proper RPEs and just get through the session as best you can.

One thing I'll say for it...it's a lot more effective if you actually test yourself to failure once in a while. For example, sometimes that third rep just felt terrible and I didn't think I had one more...but I don't know unless I try for it. After failing several lifts, I gained a pretty good idea of when I'm completely spent, and when I can bang out another one or two reps. So if you're going to dive into RPE but don't know a lot about your maximum capacity, force yourself to try to complete the reps even if you think you can't, just so you can get a better feel for what you have left.

[Ben Patterson]

You use RPE to determine weight on the bar for a given number of repetitions.

Since you mentioned intermediate programming, let's look at an example program utilizing RPE.

HLM ("standard", squat only)
Monday: 3x5, add 5 pounds each week as long as all reps are completed.

Wednesday: tempo squat 5x2 @ 80%-90% of Monday

Friday: 3x5 at 90%-95% of Monday

HLM using RPE (squats)
Monday: 5@9, 2-3 back off sets (find a weight the works for 5 reps with 1 in the tank, then strip 5% off and do back off sets.)

Wednesday: Tempo squat: 2@9, 3-4 back offs

Friday: 5@7, repeat weight for 2 additional sets

Did this help?

[Brodie Butland]

Look at the RPE chart that correlates percentages.

You already know that certain percentages can be effective.

Start there.

This is definitely a good place to start out...basically you pick your top set and then you can use a strict percentage calculation to figure out roughly what your lower sets will be.

Keep in mind, however, that everyone's percentages will be a little different...so the chart is a guide, not a decree. I tend to take smaller jumps between my RPE 8 and RPE 9 than what a generic chart recommends. Over time you'll figure out what works best for you as well.

[manveer]

Think of RPE as a guide, not the focus. For example, in my current programming I work up to three ramping sets of 4 @RPE 7, 8, and 9 respectively. RPE 7 means I have about three reps left in the tank, RPE 8 means about two, and RPE 9 means I probably had one rep left. I then do backoff sets of 4 at a little over 90% of my top set with no more than 6 min rest in between, until the last rep of a given set feels like a 9 (typically the second backoff set, sometimes a third).

10% fatigue? That seems like a lot.

FWIW, fatigue percents are not programmed by RTS anymore. Number of sets are fixed, with day to day adjustments from TRAC.

As I said...not an exact science, but it's a pretty decent guide. It also gives you a mechanism to account for bad days where things are just too grueling...if you're having a bad day, then reduce the weight to around the proper RPEs and just get through the session as best you can.

...also, to take advantage of the good days when what you thought would be @8 is really @7.

[StrengthEngineer]

This thread helps my understanding a lot. I think a big part of the problem is there are so many differing opinions on the subject, when you start to google around about RPE it quickly becomes information overload. It's quite the rabbit hole to go down (DUP is another topic that seems to get more confusing the more I read about it, lol). But having a couple people show some examples of how they actually would implement RPE in a real program is very helpful.

[crookedfinger]

So, some clarification. I have been tracking my lifts using RPE for about 8-10 weeks. I have been using their app as well. I don't use TRAC, as ain't nothing happening in the morning, but coffee (no heart rate monitoring and other shit--just ain't going to happen). I have trained enough to know where/how to gage the lifts whether its a heavy single, a set of 3, or a set of 5/6/7. Basically, after reading through all of the replies, which have been very helpful, what I can glean is you have a target weight/rep range for the day/week and you use RPE to determine how that top set felt and to determine back off sets for volume to manage fatigue (rather than a percentage). So you program for your goals and use RPE to help achieve them.

On a side note, I have noticed that when I train in the @9 @9.5 range the standard 5% drop for fatigue is not nearly enough. I need about 10% back offs to stay in the same rep range. This may have to do with my age (42), conditioning levels, and/or possibly poundages I am training with or a combination of all 3.

Based on this, I am gleaning that there isn't necessarily an RPE Driven programming approach. Rather, an approach to programming that utilizes RPE as a tool to drive progress and balance volume. Is that a fair statement?

[manveer]

Based on this, I am gleaning that there isn't necessarily an RPE Driven programming approach. Rather, an approach to programming that utilizes RPE as a tool to drive progress and balance volume. Is that a fair statement?

RPE is just a tool to help you get the right weight on the bar for that lift during that session.

[manveer]

Also:

I don't use TRAC, as ain't nothing happening in the morning, but coffee (no heart rate monitoring and other shit--just ain't going to happen).

You can skip the HR test. Even Mike T doesn't do it. The subjective questions take 2 mins tops.

Edit: You can also do the TRAC test at a different time of day if you want. Just be consistent about the time that you do it. Doesn't have to be first thing in the AM.

[marcf]

Also:



You can skip the HR test. Even Mike T doesn't do it. The subjective questions take 2 mins tops.

Edit: You can also do the TRAC test at a different time of day if you want. Just be consistent about the time that you do it. Doesn't have to be first thing in the AM.

Takes me less than a minute each morning.

Also, I'm sure this was answered somewhere around here already, but why did they stop programming fatigue drops? Too much work for some trainees sometimes?