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Volume sensitivity for older lifters
So I recently downloaded Feigenbaum's and Baraki's program from his Instagram feed called "The Bridge". I feel like I've kinda messed up my intermediate transition, like so many others, and having read a lot of Jordan's material, it looked like the program would really be in my wheel house.
On the other hand, I'm also getting to be older (41), so I read "The Barbell Prescription" with a lot of interest as well. So while reading "The Bridge", this paragraph in particular stuck out:
This seems to directly contradict the main point of "The Barbell Prescription". All of the authors for both programs seem to be well respected on these boards. What are other older intermediate lifter's experiences with volume exposure? For me, I've tried to model my programming more towards the idea of volume sensitivity, but feel like I haven't made the progress that I should have. Maybe I'm just not an older lifter yet?An interesting concept has come up in some coaching circles suggesting that there are trainees who are uniquely “volume sensitive” who do not handle adding stress in the way of volume very well and incur more stress than we’d otherwise expect from a given amount volume. Classically, this type of trainee is an older person and the typical suggestion is to train less frequently, use less volume, and to use higher intensity work sets in order to incrementally increase stress. We find these claims lacking both scientific and anecdotal evidence and, in our estimation, representing a misunderstanding of exercise programming. Consequently, we will attempt to show that increasing volume exposure correctly is both necessary and beneficial for long term progress.
Last edited by Sinai; 08-08-2017 at 09:57 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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I haven't read any of the referenced material. But for the "volume sensitive" a high-frequency of very small single-session "doses" of has worked beautifully.
Edit: Just read Les' post. Really big strong dudes and not very strong old people with shit recovery are very different beasts.
Last edited by John Hanley; 08-08-2017 at 10:28 AM.
Callador
I haven't looked at The Bridge plan or The Barbell Prescription, but I think I can help out given that I am 39 and a SHW lifter. SHW (super heavy weights) typically also have issues with higher volume training.
It seems that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to support this, at least with SHW lifters. Most try higher volume programs (like SS squatting 3x per week) and eventually hit a wall. Many find out that they need LESS volume and frequency, not more. The best SHW lifters in the world by and large hit the squat and deadlift 1x per week. Bench is usually 1 to 2x per week. I think this is because large lifters are creating more systemic stress squatting higher weights (including body weight). A 300# guy is already squatting 345 for his first warmup set. Older lifters probably have the same issue recovering from large amounts of stress.
Older lifters probably run into the issue of needing enough stress to create an adequate adaptation while not trying to overtax recovery. So the big question is how much work do you need to make progress? Since you are older, the "optimal" program may not be for you. But if you are still making gains, the program with less work involved may be optimum for you.
I typically do best squatting and deadlifting 1x per week. I've found that doing a top set, followed by drop sets works best for me. I've had younger people and non SHW's run this style of program too, and it did work. For a while I was doing the top set followed by 4 drop sets. The drop sets were pretty light compared to the top set. I still did way better doing this than squatting 3x per week, even if the 2 of the 3 squat days were lighter variations. That style of programming (under coaching) ran me into the ground. I actually made great progress doing the top set/drop sets, where I only went heavy every other week. I gained strength rapidly and was on track to hit a 700 squat with wraps. So it is possible to make gains like this.
Now I am working with Tom (Izzy), and we are still hitting the main lifts 1x per week. We do the top set, followed by drop sets that increase throughout the block (so week 1 is 2 drop sets, week 4 could be 4, etc.). We also rotate lifts (so high bar one block, low bar the next). So instead of heavy/light every other week, I sort of go heavier and lighter every other block because the assistance lifts like high bar I can't move as much weight. He even said we may eventually go to heavy/light, since that has worked. But I took a year off, so moving up every week is better right now. :-)
So I say try it and see. Do one pretty heavy set and take off 10% and do a few more. Bench may need 2x per week. The second day could be a bench variant where you do a couple of easier sets.
Best of luck!
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I'll be 56 next week, my formula for progress is Higher Intensity and Variety. I believe there is no "one right way" for everyone.
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I think this is a muscle-function/optimization vs muscle growth thing.Originally Posted by mgilchrest
If the latter is a priority, I WANT to dip into recovery resources. Every night.
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Is this another way of saying neural efficiency vs. hypertrophy?
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Yeah
Callador
I agree. It may not be optimal, but there is growth for sure. If you look at what I was like at my first powerlifting meet (after a year of training) versus a couple of years later at the same body weight, there was a huge difference in muscle mass.
Member
Because you're 40 with a shitload of muscle mass.
You HAVE to prioritize "neural efficiency".
Or take drugs & grow natty-impossible amounts of lean mass.
Member
If he already has a shitload of muscle mass, shouldn't it be harder to grow more with lower frequency training? Do you think he'd grow more with higher frequency training?
Sounds good. Maybe I can get a yuuuge back.
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