Switching from novice to intermediate on caloric defecit questions

[Dal]

So this is my first post and i was trying to think of the best way to phrase these question while relaying enough relevant information.

Basic Info:

Age:24
Weight: 103kg/227lb.
Height: 192cm/6ft 3.5
Body Fat: ~20%

Squat: 140kg/308lb
Deadlift: 180kg/397lb
Bench: 100kg/220lb
OHP: 62.5kg/138lb
(lifts are 3x5 3 sets of 5)

So i ran SSLP for 3ish months reaching these numbers/slightly higher but put on roughly 10kg of BW in the process. Ive always had an issue maintaining BW, prior to doing SS i ran a LP and reached a BW of 120kg. I then went on a caloric defecit and over 5 months i dropped to 95kg BW whilst lifting very intermintently as I was in my first year of Med school (UK) and not prioritising my time effectively.
Over the last 2 weeks ive put myself on a 2750 kcal diet (~210p/270c/90f) and dropped 2kg of BW but my lifts have completely stalled as youd expect. Squats have been failing in 3x5 as im able to get 5 reps in my first set, 4 in my 2nd and only 3 in my 3rd for example.

Now to the questions:

A novice lifter is defined by the ability to recover and progress in weight over a 48hr period allowing for linear progression.
Given that due to the caloric defecit (im sure without id still be progressing with LP) my lifts are stalling and im unable to progress within 48hrs as my body is unable to recover from the previous stress causing fatigue. Do i now change from a novice lifter to an intermediate lifter given the classical defenitions?
I am going to expreiment with changing from 3x5 to 5x3 on OHP and Bench with microloading, should i also change to 5x3 on squats? (I listened to barbell logic #10 podcast on ways to extend LP and they talked about changing to the 5x3 format for upper body but not lower body, but if my squat completely stalls, would that make it a viable option)
I understand that on a caloric defecit it is difficult to gain strength, but by the logic of programming, would switching to an intermediate program to spread the stress over a week allow for strength gains?

Bear in mind that i am 24 years old, i wish to stay in reasonable shape as im at univeristy and play rugby. Id like to drop to 90kg BW before going on a surplus. My goal weight to maintain myself at with reasonably strong lifts is ~100kg.


My current thoughts are to try experimenting for the next few weeks to see if i can prevent the stall on lp with variations, if intermediate programming is viable, i will most likely switch to the bridge.
Any other recommendations would be great, thanks.

[Dalton Clark]

I think that you're a bit misguided on your weight. You are 6'4" roughly, and are not at a weight where you need to be at all worrying about your weight. For a frame of reference, I am 5'10" and weigh 209 pounds and still gaining at a rate of about 2 pounds of body weight a week with limited increases in waist measurement. I eat over 4000 calories a day. A novice who can't meet his LP due to a recovery deficit IS NOT AN INTERMEDIATE. Please reference the first 3 questions. Your goal (as someone who used to play rugby) should be to get stronger and bigger while maintaining your conditioning. You should not be in a deficit.

An addition to the novice definition: Can recover in 48 hours PROVIDED CORRECT RECOVERY. You are doing a late stage novice version of "you're not doing the program". Otherwise we would be telling idiots who won't eat enough to go to intermediate programming. Which we don't do.

P.S. What position are you?

[Dal]

I think that you're a bit misguided on your weight. You are 6'4" roughly, and are not at a weight where you need to be at all worrying about your weight. For a frame of reference, I am 5'10" and weigh 209 pounds and still gaining at a rate of about 2 pounds of body weight a week with limited increases in waist measurement. I eat over 4000 calories a day. A novice who can't meet his LP due to a recovery deficit IS NOT AN INTERMEDIATE. Please reference the first 3 questions. Your goal (as someone who used to play rugby) should be to get stronger and bigger while maintaining your conditioning. You should not be in a deficit.

An addition to the novice definition: Can recover in 48 hours PROVIDED CORRECT RECOVERY. You are doing a late stage novice version of "you're not doing the program". Otherwise we would be telling idiots who won't eat enough to go to intermediate programming. Which we don't do.

P.S. What position are you?

In the medics team i play anywhere in the pack, flanker/8 or shoehorned into 2nd row due to my height.

And i completely agree, im aware that im 'not doing the program' due to the caloric defecit and that i should if anything be heavier and i am also aware the definitions require that recovery is met.
The reasoning i was trying to use is that a novice moves to an intermediate program because they are no longer able to recover from the stress they are imparting on their body. If my recovery aspect is now reduced due to the caloric defecit, im ofcourse still a novice because i could just eat more and continue LP. However, for the interim for which i am trying to drop weight and my recovery aspect is affected, surely moving to a program where stress is accumulated over a week would give me the best chance of gaining or atleast maintaining my current strength. Or perhaps is my reasoning flawed and that a continued SS LP esque program in which the stress is high every session i train the best way to maintain/gain.

[Satch12879]

This is called being a "situational intermediate."

[Dalton Clark]

Why are you seeking to lower your weight? If you gained you'd probably look better, be stronger, and perform better in your sport.

If you are not eating properly, I don't see intermediate programming working any better. Add a light day in the middle for dl/squat and see how it goes. You might be eating so little that you can only maintain.

[Dal]

Why are you seeking to lower your weight? If you gained you'd probably look better, be stronger, and perform better in your sport.

If you are not eating properly, I don't see intermediate programming working any better. Add a light day in the middle for dl/squat and see how it goes. You might be eating so little that you can only maintain.

Its only purely to maintain a healthy BF%. I put on about 20kg over a year eating at 3400 kcal a day so 2750kcal shouldnt be too much of a defecit.

I'll continue doing A and B and given your advice ill do a light in the middle (only in respect to squats, with 80% of training max for squats and its keep it 3x5). The Bench and OHP i'll do 5x3 on their respective workout days. I guess for deadlifts i'll do them once every 3 workouts and try and maintain normal LP (may need to add a light day 80% 3x5 if that doesnt work).

Hopefully that looks alright and makes sense, any other advice/criticism would be greatly appreciated.

[Royce Nichols]

Its only purely to maintain a healthy BF%. I put on about 20kg over a year eating at 3400 kcal a day so 2750kcal shouldnt be too much of a defecit

I'm curious....you're young, not fat, and your BF percentage isn't out of control (how did you come about 20%anyway?), so why not just slowly gain? Be a little bit more intelligent with your food intake and your measurements. I imagine getting your squat to 405 and DL to 500 you would be a monster on the rugby field.

At the end of the day, its about what you want to do. I think all of us will say that cutting right now is probably not your best option. Getting really strong probably is. Good luck!

[NCuba]

I would recommend that you prioritize your rugby over the lifting simply because you are in a good environment for rugby now (school) while lifting is something you can do by yourself for a long time after. But are your target weights related to rugby performance or something else?

If you really do want to lose 15 kg then yeah I think you should stop doing LP and figure out some other program to do, intermediate or whatever. It's possible to get a little stronger even on a deficit when you're just a few months into an LP because there are things other than muscle mass driving gains, but that's not really viable over the whole diet. I'd say it's smarter to reorient your training around your goals. You will definitely be weaker than you are now once your 15 kg lighter and you should get out of the frame of mind where lifting means +2 kg every workout (or + any weight). Just figure out how to keep in the habit and lose as little off your totals as possible.

[Dal]

I'm curious....you're young, not fat, and your BF percentage isn't out of control (how did you come about 20%anyway?), so why not just slowly gain? Be a little bit more intelligent with your food intake and your measurements. I imagine getting your squat to 405 and DL to 500 you would be a monster on the rugby field.

At the end of the day, its about what you want to do. I think all of us will say that cutting right now is probably not your best option. Getting really strong probably is. Good luck!

BF percentage i used callipers (obviously may be very innaccurate). My food intake is all on myfitnesspal and i weigh everything with scales so that i know my intake is accurate. Getting my squat to 405 and DL to 500 is my goal for improving rugby physical performance. I'll try a few things out, my only thoughts were that eating at maintenence i wont really see an increase in strength, if i cut down and then do a surplus to a BW that im personally comfortable at without impeding conditioning/sprinting/running performance.

I would recommend that you prioritize your rugby over the lifting simply because you are in a good environment for rugby now (school) while lifting is something you can do by yourself for a long time after. But are your target weights related to rugby performance or something else?

If you really do want to lose 15 kg then yeah I think you should stop doing LP and figure out some other program to do, intermediate or whatever. It's possible to get a little stronger even on a deficit when you're just a few months into an LP because there are things other than muscle mass driving gains, but that's not really viable over the whole diet. I'd say it's smarter to reorient your training around your goals. You will definitely be weaker than you are now once your 15 kg lighter and you should get out of the frame of mind where lifting means +2 kg every workout (or + any weight). Just figure out how to keep in the habit and lose as little off your totals as possible.

I'll play around with things for a few weeks and weight up the positives and negatives to judge what i should do. I think the program i listed earlier might be my best chance to milk a few gains on the defecit. Once the defecit is over, ill be back on surplus and regain LP properly until i have to switch to intermediate.

My targets weights are related to rugby but also just to being stronger, id personally consider 405 squat 3x5 and 500 DL 1x5 strong for a casual lifter who doesnt do any meets. Perhaps when i reach those goals i might sign up to my first meet and train exclusively for that.