New lifters

[casbah]

As a new lifter last year I started SS and like many others had crap squat form. Thanks to getting misinformation on the bb forum I started adding weight and ended up with bad knees and back. I posted on here asking for advice but it was too late, I had already f*cked things up.

I studied the descriptions in the book over and over yet still didn't understand the concepts of a proper squat. You'll have something humorous to say but I am an intelligent lad yet no studying could translate into proper form without the guidance of a skilled trainer. It just isn't that simple when you don't know how, when you have no experience and you really don't understand the exercise or lifting in a general sense.

I think realistically, months are needed to study and learn a safe squat. Then an additional month just for form adjustments. After all that is what's most important, right? Yet clearly hardly anyone is aware of this at the beginning and therefore go through long stages of lifting with bad form picking up bad habits along the way.

Mark, how dangerous do you see lifting beginners squatting with no PT or expert guidance at the gym? I've watched countless videos on here and most of them have the same old issues; sliding knees, looking up, butt tucking etc. It seems very few beginners can get sufficient understanding of the physical requirements of the squat in the early stages of their lifting career, putting them in danger.

The solution is simple; do your f*cking studying and get your form right before adding weight but nobody does this. Have you ever seen a new SS lifter asking for form critique with just the bar?

I've had to learn the hard way and wish somehow I could have gained the level of understanding I have now before I f*cked myself up. I'm at the tail end of recovery so I'm not squatting weight yet, but I've done plenty of bar squats, filmed them and I can't help but laugh at my ridiculous form videos from last year when I compare, yet at the time I had no clue as to the damage I was doing. My form won't be perfect now but my back stays straight and my knees don't slide and that separates me from 90% of newbs out there.

Thoughts?

[Mark Rippetoe]

My thoughts are that for many years I have successfully shown many people how to squat correctly the first time I worked with them, that I do this with 25+ people once a month at our Basic Barbell certifications for CrossFit, and that my book quite thoroughly explains the basics of correct form and has enabled lots of people to pick it up by themselves in far less time than you seem to think is necessary. All these people can squat with significant weight almost immediately, and therefore begin to get strong that day. The process you are describing sounds more like Tai Chi than barbell training, and I would dispute the necessity of the timeline you advocate.

I invite the comments of other people that have used the method detailed in BBT. Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet that lots of people will tell you that they have had little trouble picking it up. If they have, I'd like to know too.

[sirr0bin]

I've been on SS:BBT for a little over 4 months now and my form still isn't perfect, especially since it changes a bit day to day. I've read the book cover to cover 4-5 times now. I don't have a coach and have to rely on input from regulars at my gym, but very few people squat so when I ask them if depth/knee sliding/lower back rounding/etc is an issue 99% of the time I hear "yeah it looks great!". Now I'm sure that's not the case since some days I really feel everything work together and heavy weights are no problem, and other days I'm constantly fighting issues.

Working with a knowledgable trainer vs having to feel out problems and remember the right cues to fix them yourself is a world of difference IMO.

[XTrainer]

The squat was (is) the hardest lift for me to get technically correct. This is probably the result of doing thousands of bodyweight squats as part of GPP workouts before I started back squatting, then back squatting with crappy form for a year or so before I finally got Starting Strength.

I imagine my squat form would be darn near perfect if I had learned it right in the first place, instead of having to constantly override ingrained habits. There's really not a whole lot that a bodyweight Hindu squat and a back squat have in common!

I'd guess that if I had Starting Strength when I first began lifting, I would have had no problems learning how to squat properly.

My other lifts are fine (technically, anyway) thanks to Starting Strength.

[spur]

Being overseas and unable to attend any of Rip's seminars, I had to depend on SSBBT and crossfit videos to learn the correct squat and other lifts. Having no prior experience and therefore no confidence, I must admit it took a few months to figure out about pushing the hips back and squatting instead of a standing leg press. But once I figured it out, I even got my 12 year old to start squatting and in a few months he is squatting 147 Lbs, which is almost his body weight 3x5. The progress most youngsters make on this program is amazing. With the second edition SSBBT, and Rip's Q&A its a lot easier to learn the correct back squat and other lifts for those who are not lucky enough to attend his seminars.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

It's been about 2 months since I started and I'd say I have a decent squat. Decent in that I can put up 355 with good form and no pain for 3x5. Yeah, my knees slid forward and then I learned to stop them from doing that. Then I realized my elbows were to low, so I lifted them.

I could put up 225 picture perfect, but I didn't really learn the squat till the weight got heavy. I didn't really activate all the muscles till I really had. Maybe I'm dumbass for needing a bit of pain in a joint to come here and go through these archives to find out what piece I'm doing wrong, but I'm a dumbass with a 130 lb heavier squat.

Same deal with the cleans and deadlifts. More wieght, a bit a pain, more technique correction.

Yeah, it would have been nice to have Coach Rip along side of me telling me what I did wrong everytime, but learning as you go with a few missteps is better than not learning at all.

[cskolnick]

As a new lifter last year I started SS and like many others had crap squat form. Thanks to getting misinformation on the bb forum I started adding weight and ended up with bad knees and back. I posted on here asking for advice but it was too late, I had already f*cked things up.

I studied the descriptions in the book over and over yet still didn't understand the concepts of a proper squat. You'll have something humorous to say but I am an intelligent lad yet no studying could translate into proper form without the guidance of a skilled trainer. It just isn't that simple when you don't know how, when you have no experience and you really don't understand the exercise or lifting in a general sense.

I think realistically, months are needed to study and learn a safe squat. Then an additional month just for form adjustments. After all that is what's most important, right? Yet clearly hardly anyone is aware of this at the beginning and therefore go through long stages of lifting with bad form picking up bad habits along the way.

Mark, how dangerous do you see lifting beginners squatting with no PT or expert guidance at the gym? I've watched countless videos on here and most of them have the same old issues; sliding knees, looking up, butt tucking etc. It seems very few beginners can get sufficient understanding of the physical requirements of the squat in the early stages of their lifting career, putting them in danger.

The solution is simple; do your f*cking studying and get your form right before adding weight but nobody does this. Have you ever seen a new SS lifter asking for form critique with just the bar?

I've had to learn the hard way and wish somehow I could have gained the level of understanding I have now before I f*cked myself up. I'm at the tail end of recovery so I'm not squatting weight yet, but I've done plenty of bar squats, filmed them and I can't help but laugh at my ridiculous form videos from last year when I compare, yet at the time I had no clue as to the damage I was doing. My form won't be perfect now but my back stays straight and my knees don't slide and that separates me from 90% of newbs out there.

Thoughts?

I am by no means a squatting superstar but the one thing that has helped me the most is to exaggerate EVERY cue that is outlined in the book. This, for me, forces me into correct form. In short, just dive in. People blow out backs picking up the morning paper or blow out there knees slipping on ice; the muscle are loose. the squat LOADS them so you are better off in many ways.

cs

[casbah]

My thoughts are that for many years I have successfully shown many people how to squat correctly the first time I worked with them, that I do this with 25+ people once a month at our Basic Barbell certifications for CrossFit, and that my book quite thoroughly explains the basics of correct form and has enabled lots of people to pick it up by themselves in far less time than you seem to think is necessary. All these people can squat with significant weight almost immediately, and therefore begin to get strong that day. The process you are describing sounds more like Tai Chi than barbell training, and I would dispute the necessity of the timeline you advocate.

I invite the comments of other people that have used the method detailed in BBT. Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet that lots of people will tell you that they have had little trouble picking it up. If they have, I'd like to know too.

I think your book describes it brilliantly, now I understand the squat thanks to my drastic mistakes I can see that. Before though I struggled to translate the articulate description in the book to physical form.

Perhaps my time line was an exaggeration, perhaps there are plenty of beginners out there who were naturals from the word go but from what I've seen so far, from all videos I've seen on the web I can't say there's many with proper form.

I'm not in any way saying this is the fault of your teachings, the descriptions in SS are the most in depth and assisting I've come across.

Obviously you've seen far more beginners progress than me, I'm just making a generalisation based on what I've seen. There certainly seems to be a trend and I don't like to think other lads out there will have to go through what I have just to get the squat down, but how will they know to avoid it?

[stakehoagy]

Coach Rip,
I thought the book was written in a very very detailed manner and I had no trouble picking up how to squat correctly. My problem was that a personal trainer and many internet and book sources say knees can't travel in front of toes and i squated with my shin almost vertical. But for my anthropometry I think it is necessary for knees to go in front of toes as suggested in your book.

[TomF]

By no means am I a superstar either. But I essentially learned to squat from Rip's book. And learned well enough to teach my three kids to squat.

Yes, it helps having someone watch - and I've had some good feedback periodically from a coach where I lift - but it's been tweaking 'round the edges. Essentially, it's the descriptions in SS that took me from squatting #135 to squatting #310.

t