Training advice - 40+, no progress on OHP and deadlifts

[gbl]

Hi,
I need an advice.

Age: 42
Weight: 87kg
Status – training for strength from August 2017, 15 - 10 years ago trained seriously bodybuilding style(natural), stopped 7 years ago; since then, for 7 years, 1 - 2 times per week generic weights training.
I am new to targeted strength training but not to the iron. During the bodybuilding days I did of course strength cycles during the training.

Current status:
Squats – 3 x 5 with 314 pounds (142.5 kg), steady progress with two de-loads and some minor injuries
Deadlift – 2 x 5 with 330 pounds (150 kg), almost no progress since October 2017
OHP – 3 x 5 with 132 pounds (60kg), no progress for more than a month, cannot add even 2.5 pounds and finish 3x5. Basically going back and forth with weights.
Barbell row – stopped doing all rows due to golfer’s elbow in both hands, the result from 1 month ago: 198 pounds 3x5.
Bench-press: don’t do due to pain in elbows every time I go heavier than 70 kg.
Remark: I don’t try 1 rep max due to fear of injuries.
Remark 2: I am from Europe, so the numbers in pounds are approximations.

Goal: stronger squats (180 3x5), deadlift (200 3x5), OHP (100 3x5).
Problem: No progress whatsoever on deadlifts and OHP.
Time frame: I plan on training till I drop, so no pressure here.

I train 2 - 3 days a week, but at least 2 days per week. Linear programming. Started with 5x5 and for the last 3 months: 3x5 /starting strength, basically.
Tried to squat 3 times per week and just could not. Got very tired in 3 weeks and had to switch to 2 heavy days. I guess it is the age kicking in - 10 years ago it was not like this, but I am not sure. It might be bad programming.
(After squatting heavy 3 times a week my wife told me that I look like I am going to die).

Training pattern:
Day 1: Tuesday afternoon
Squat 3 x 5 – almost failure
Press: 3 x 5 – cannot do more than three sets

Day 2 – Saturday afternoon
Squat 3 x 5 – cannot do more than three sets
Press: 3 x 5 – cannot do more than three sets
Usually I cannot imagine doing deadlift after squating with this weight. I just got very tired and feel the posterior chain, so to say (lower back and glutes).

Day 3 – Sunday Morning
Usually, I am sore from Saturday squats
Deadlift: 2 x 5, almost failure; I cannot do more than 2 sets with this weight.
Straight One arm push down: 3 x 8
Lat pull down: 3 x 8
Face pulls: 3 x 10

Weight progression on squats till now: 2.5 kg per week or after 3 workouts with the same weight (per 1.5 weeks) - goes pretty well. Although I noticed that I rest more between sets as the weight is getting heavier.

Any suggestion how to break through here with deadlifts and OHP, given that I cannot change the days of training due to career and family obligations (I am thankful that I have these days) and given that squats are progresing fine?

Suggestions that I got from "bros":
1. Someone told me that I am significantly lacking volume. The suggestion was to add 2x5 80% RM after the heavy lift on all lifts OR do a heavy day and a volume day. Does it make sense? I am not sure how it does as I do deadlifts once a week. May be for OHP it does make sense?
2. Another suggestion was to add stiff legged deadlift on Tuesday, but it seems very close to the main deadlift workout on Sunday and I cannot add it on Saturday, again as this is a main deadlift day.
3. Switch the program to 2day 5/3/1 program. The issue is that squats still progress well linearly. Does it make sense to switch now?


Thanks, any help is highly appreciated.

[Brian Goldstein]

Lots going on there.

You almost certainly have technical errors that need to be ironed out. The errors in your technique are part of the pain you feel. Go over to the technique board (or get verified for the SSC board) and post a form check, per their sticky instructions.

Is Tuesday/ Saturday/ Sunday the only schedule you can train? There are ways to arrange that to work but it isn’t optimal.

Last, have you read Starting Strength, 3rd edition or the Barbell Prescription?

[gbl]

Hi Brian, thanks for the reply.

I have went through the Starting strength, though I am not sure how it is related to the difficulty progressing on deadlifts and OHP.

My question is not about how to get rid of the pain or how to improve the technique. I am pretty sure that my technique in squats, deadlift and OHP is good.
My question is about programming.
I experience pain only in Benchpress and rows; and these two pains are different - in rows it is the golfer's elbow, i.e tendon pain, and the other one is a deep elbow joint pain that can last for hours after the workout.
There is no pain in deadlifts or OHP or squats for that matter. It feels well (and heavy).
I can live without the bench press or rows, unless it will somehow imporve my deadlift or OHP AND there is no way around it.

As to the training days, unfortunatelly that is what I got.

[Royce Nichols]

How tall are you?

Yeah, you really need to make sure technique is OK. If you’re in pain, chances are high that you’re doing something wrong. Bench will improve your press initially, so you should bench if you can.

But to answer you question. Yes, eventually you will need to add more volume/frequency to get your lifts to move. Training towards ‘failure’ really isn’t doing you any favors, either. Have you checked out Andy Bakers programming? He has great stuff for older folks. Doesn’t run you in the ground and gets you progressing. I think Garage Gym Warrior? Good luck

[gbl]

Thanks.

I am 178cm (5'10''), about 14-15% body fat.
I will check him out.

To be honest, I don' really understand the "training towards failure" remark. I mean, I started with linear programming. I added and still add weight (2.5 kg-5.5 pounds / 1.5 kg - 3.3 pounds) in squats, and try to add in DL and OHP every week. Eventually it became heavy. I do not fail (or miss) reps. And when I do, I deload and build up again. It works well with squats (the last deload was at 130kg/306 pounds) and it does not work with DL and OHP.

They issue that I tried to point out is that I reached weight which is heavy for me, where I cannot add every workout but rather every week and 3x5 means 3x5 and not "I can do another couple of sets with 5 reps each".
I am not sure what I am missing here. How else you can add weight without eventually hitting the one that is really heavy for you.

[Royce Nichols]

Resetting only works once or twice. I am not surprised that you got stuck again. It is inevitable and happens to everybody. You need an adjustment in volume/frequency to start getting your lifts to move. LP does not last forever and it’s important to know when you’re done so you can switch instead of doing endless resets.

What I mean is...are your reps really grindy? If so, you need an adjustment in programming. You saying ‘I can’t do anymore. I am sore for several days’ suggests not only technical issues but also programming issues. We really need to see videos of your technique man...

[gbl]

Squats:
The last rep on each set is slower than the others. I become very red. However, I feel in control throughout the whole range of motion and I am confident that I finish the rep. Every rep, on every set.

DL:
It just feels heavy and very slow at the beginning of the motion. I am afraid of injury, so if the prev rep felt super heavy I stop, I am not going further. For instance last time, after 2 sets of 5, I would never go for another set - it felt so slow and heavy.
No shaking though. No pumping motion - although slow the motion was smooth all the way up.

OHP:
One can say "grinding" and I miss reps. If I go 62.5 kg I will not complete 3 x 5. probably it will be 1x5, 1x4, 1x3.
By 60kg, it depends on how the squats went. Last time I missed last 2 reps on the last set out of 3. After squatting 3x5 with 142.5kg.
A workout before that - 3x5 all reps went as smooth as it gets. Probably I was not as tired from squats (I was squatting 140kg on that day).

As to the technique - I will film myself on Saturday, I hope.

[Royce Nichols]

Trying to keep LP alive

Your feelings on the lifts without any objective feedback from a video are irrelevant. Read that link from Coach Wolf. There are some gems in there that will really help you. When you film, you can post to the SS Q&A or technique forum.

[gbl]

What? My feeling of whether the reps is grindy is irrelevant? Why did you ask me then?
I am 20 years doing training with weights. Although mostly bodybuilding, I think I am capable of identifying a grinding rep. And I always thought that how I feel during the lift is the most important thing. Not how it looks, but rather how it feels.
To say smth like "your objective feedback is irrelavant" is kinda condescending, naive and not productive.

Basically, all I asked is a simple question whether I should add volume by adding more light sets after the heavy sets or rotate heavy and light(volume) days. All the answers (you and the other one)seem to be: "you have a bad technique, go and film yourself".
Or even funnier whether I read Starting Strength edition 3.
I tend to disagree as to my technique. The fact that I carry injuries from the past in my elbows has nothing to do with my technique in squats, DL or OHP. How on earth it has smth to do with the question whether and how I should add volume? <- It is a hypothetical question.

Anyway, thank you very much for the link and deep insights. You dont have to reply to my post any further.

[Royce Nichols]

Well that escalated quickly. lol

No, what I mean is this:
1) if you're doing balls to the wall busting grinders then that is probably not effective programming and it is time for a switch.
2) Your feelings of OMG ITS HEAVY or "it felt slow and heavy, but no pumping or shaking" are not particularly helpful because the video may show wow, you definitely had two more in the tank there. How you feel about it is important, but feelings are pretty subjective. So, you couple your FEELZZ with the set with based on how it looked. Does that make sense?
3) Well, we think you may need to add some more volume/frequency in. Which is why I told you about Andy Baker. BUUUT your technique may be bad, and you may not need to move to more advanced programming. Trust me, we all need help with technique!
4) elbow pain is very common around here, and you did not indicate earlier that it was a previous injury. So, your elbow pain can/may be due to incorrect technique on some of the lifts.
5) Trying to keep the LP alive has some useful tips in there that you may not be doing. Which *may* get you past your sticking points. If it doesn't, hop on to the other programs that I mentioned which already have your increases in vol/frequency. Oh, and Barbell Medicine is a nice place to check out, too.
6) Hope that cleared up. Good luck.