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Thread: TRT

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    Default TRT

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    Qeustions for anyone with experience of TRT and/or medical knowledge:

    My doc is willing to put me on TRT if I ”fail” the T-test.
    He’s given me instructions on how to do that and the reason is I have pretty high T but also high SHBG, and he needs to have an excuse because T is not prescribed to someone with 725 in Sweden, high SHBG or not.

    First I was really happy about this (pretty sure I can tank the test) but now I’m having all sorts of second thoughts.

    Is this for life, will my own T-production die out?
    Will my balls shrink?
    Perhaps there’s a way to lower SHBG instead?
    Should I really start f***ing with the super complicated hormonal system with such a blunt instrument as TRT when my T is kind of high?
    Should I do the test ”proper” so I know what I’m dealing with? (725 is two or three years ago) and losing this once in a swedish lifetime chance of getting TRT?
    Am I overthinking this?

    I’m 53, 6’2, 220 and thanks to SS, pretty fit and strong. But my libido sucks, I’m always 3 to 4 on a tengrade moodscale, nothing arouses me and my lifting leaves me drained for days. Very modest progress since the end of LP some three years ago.

    Any input appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    599

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    Retake the test. Lots can change in 2-3 years.

    Then read up on risks and benefits of testosterone replacement. In medicine there is never a free lunch.

    Are you depressed? Maybe treat that instead/too.

  3. #3
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    May 2015
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    Thanks for the reply.

    You mean take the the test proper?
    And yeah, I’ve read and read til my head is spinning with conflicting advice. That’s why I came here.
    And no, I wouldn’t say more depressed than any sane adult should be. Just without zest.

    I even come to suspect - and this is hard for me - the lifting.
    At least the last two years have been a tightrope walking between stress and recovery.
    Thinking of taking some serious time off but worry about losing what I’ve built. Besides, it’s a lifestyle now.
    And what if that’s the wrong suspect considering high SHBG and all...

    Anyone who has gone before me care to chime in?

  4. #4
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    Feb 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northswede View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    You mean take the the test proper?
    And yeah, I’ve read and read til my head is spinning with conflicting advice. That’s why I came here.
    And no, I wouldn’t say more depressed than any sane adult should be. Just without zest.
    Well, I don't have experience with the high-T, high SHBG situation. I would ask the docs over at BBM.

    I do have lots of experience with depressed patients, and 3-4 on a 10-pt mood scale, being "without zest," and "nothing arouses" you sounds like what we would call anhedonia, which is a cardinal feature of depression. This may be related to the testosterone issue, but may be its own issue as well. I have seen many many people spin their wheels for months-years looking for a "medical reason" for depression, and finally get better when they see a shrink for meds and/or therapy for the depression itself. You can do the TRT too, of course. Then you might get better and not know which it was, which would be a great problem to have.

    I doubt the lifting is making you feel worse.

  5. #5
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    May 2015
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    Thanks for the real good advice.

    Depression? Well, when you (I) put it like that...😊

    Perhaps somewhat surprising, considering my own words, it’s a new thought. Will look into that.

    But if the TRT ”cures” me why would it be a great problem to have not knowing what my problem was?

    I’m going to treat you as my number one guru though and keep lifting. Thank God!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northswede View Post
    But if the TRT ”cures” me why would it be a great problem to have not knowing what my problem was?

    I’m going to treat you as my number one guru though and keep lifting. Thank God!
    Because not knowing why you got better is a better problem to have than not knowing why you are suffering.

    Please note that I am not attempting to diagnose you with depression, or anything else, via a message board. I’m just offering some suggestions to consider. But as your #1 guru I do insist you keep lifting!

  7. #7
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    Jan 2018
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    Sorry for this being so long but I figured it was best to go overboard with details if you're considering changing your body chemistry.

    TL;DR: I've been on TRT since August of 2016. It is one part of a lot of changes I've been able to make in the last few years, and my life has greatly improved because of it.

    I'm 59, married (monogamous), sedentary job, I was always skinny all my life and hated it. I had a couple bouts of depression and anxiety. I was on an SSRI (Paxil) and I had Ativan to help through those moments. (My dad killed himself at least partly because of depression, so it's an important issue for me.) I had a couple kids in my 30s, so that took up a lot of energy, plus I've worked a fairly demanding job that took me away from family a lot. My relationship with my wife took a back seat to the kids and the job for a long time. (We pretty much had sex maybe once in two weeks.) When my kids went off to college and my wife and I became empty-nesters, we just didn't have the energy to do much any more. By that time, I had major knee problems and could barely walk. I'd come home from work and just fall asleep. Not the recipe for a happy life and marriage.

    First thing I did was have my knees replaced. That fixed my pain issues, but I still didn't have much energy. I was in the gym one day and a guy came up to me and told me about BHRT. (BHRT, HRT, TRT, pretty much the same thing.) I thought, hmm, it's with a legit doctor and a real prescription at a legal pharmacy, so what do I have to lose... I had my blood tested and yes, I was on the low end of the scale, so I learned how to inject myself with testosterone cypionate once a week. The first week was a bit crazy; it was like I had a giant cup of coffee or something, but without the jitters. I had energy and focus, plus my libido started kicking in at random times. (Felt like I was back in high school.) By the second or third week, things had calmed down quite a bit and I've been pretty steady ever since.

    I was really able to step things up in the gym. I had more energy and more power. I was able to add weight to every lift and I could do more reps. On top of that, I recovered faster. It became rapidly apparent that I needed to eat better and get better sleep! I started eating a lot more and making sure to get at least eight hours of sleep per night, and about six months or so later, I had gone from about 240 lbs to just under 280, and from something like 22% fat to 18%. About then, I started thinking about the quality of my diet and what I could do to improve. I started trying to get at least 275g of protein a day and stepped up my vegetable and fruit consumption along with a lot of rice and sweet potatoes. Interesting thing was that within two weeks of adding the extra protein, I *lost* 10 pounds! (How does that work, more calories, more protein, but weight loss?) My weight stablized soon after that, I've been just under 260 lbs for about a year now. My body has been changing a lot though. I started with a 46" waist and I'm now at 42", and my shoulders, pecs, arms, legs, etc., are all much more muscular. I used to have fairly thick fat deposits all over my legs, and now I'm seeing striations and veins! Right after the knee replacement, I had a hard time with one plate on the leg extension, and now I can squat 315!

    OK, it hasn't all been great. Within the first three months, I started having erection problems and my balls shrank to about a quarter of their original size. My doctor had originally prescribed letrozole along with the testosterone. Testosterone gets converted to estrogen in your body. The more testosterone you have, the more estrogen you'll have. You can either try to limit the conversion, or limit the effect the estrogen has on your body. Letrozole is an aromatase inhibitor, which means it limits conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Well, in my body, letrozole works too well! I was taking one pill every two weeks, and my testosterone went up to 1300 (out of range on the top side!) and my estrogen went down to being undetectable. One one hand, I had lots of energy and strength, but who cares about that if you can't keep an erection! The doctor told me to stop taking the letrozole and gave me viagra to help with the ED. (I don't like viagra, it just gives me a hot headache and doesn't seem to help my erection. Sigh.) Next problem was that once I stopped taking the letrozole, my estrogen ramped way up, so I started getting sensitive nipples. Just putting on a car shoulder belt would hurt like hell if it hit my nipple! Left untreated, that can lead to gynecomastia which I think has to be treated with surgery. To prevent that, I started taking anastrozole, another aromatase inhibitor. It's less potent than the letrozole, so I was able to balance things out with it. One of the things I noticed about the ED thing was that I was fine for about three, maybe four days after my injection, but then I would have problems. The doctor suggested that I go to two injections a week with the same total amount. That has solved the problem for me and I don't use the viagra at all.

    As for the shrinkage problem, well, there are a couple options. My doctor suggested either HCG injections, or clomiphene pills. I decided a pill would be easier to deal with than an injection, so I chose the clomiphene. That has pretty much brought my balls back up to about half of their original size. My wife and I are both happy with that. BTW, our love life is way better now! We are much more active sexually, sometimes 3-4 times a week, pretty much never less than twice a week. It helps that my wife is on HRT pellets (Sottopelle) and progesterone. I hope you can imagine how much happier we both are because of all of this!

    Recap for me at least (you will probably be different), is that I'm on two injections a week of testosterone cypionate, plus half an anstrozole and a whole clomiphene pill with each injection.

    If you are willing to get into a steady workout routine, clean up your eating, and make sure you get enough sleep, I think TRT is an essential part of a good life.

    Let me know if you have any questions that I can help with.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northswede View Post
    Qeustions for anyone with experience of TRT and/or medical knowledge:

    My doc is willing to put me on TRT if I ”fail” the T-test.
    He’s given me instructions on how to do that and the reason is I have pretty high T but also high SHBG, and he needs to have an excuse because T is not prescribed to someone with 725 in Sweden, high SHBG or not.

    First I was really happy about this (pretty sure I can tank the test) but now I’m having all sorts of second thoughts.

    Is this for life, will my own T-production die out?
    Will my balls shrink?
    Perhaps there’s a way to lower SHBG instead?
    Should I really start f***ing with the super complicated hormonal system with such a blunt instrument as TRT when my T is kind of high?
    Should I do the test ”proper” so I know what I’m dealing with? (725 is two or three years ago) and losing this once in a swedish lifetime chance of getting TRT?
    Am I overthinking this?

    I’m 53, 6’2, 220 and thanks to SS, pretty fit and strong. But my libido sucks, I’m always 3 to 4 on a tengrade moodscale, nothing arouses me and my lifting leaves me drained for days. Very modest progress since the end of LP some three years ago.

    Any input appreciated.
    I would talk to a doctor that has experience in this area. Your test levels are not low at all, in fact 725 is pretty high. Having high SHBG levels could be an indicator of something else wrong. Just throwing Test C at it may not be the best idea. A dose of 100mg per week will probably not even get you up to 725. If your doctor gives you 1ml per week, then you would probably be over 725. So I would figure out why your SHBG levels are high (liver disease, hyperthyroidism, etc.) and go from there.

    But I can maybe answer some of the other questions:

    - I don't think your test levels will die out forever, but it could happen. For most guys that even take heavy cycles of steroids, they can come off and their body will rebalance over time.

    - Yes. When your LH levels are tanked, your testes will be shut down. Most say you lose about 1/3 of the size, but I am sure that varies.

    - There are natural things you can try, check Google. Talk to your doctor too.

    - No. I wouldn't go the TRT route unless it is necessary. You could have other things going on that are causing your high SHBG levels, libido loss and general lethargy.

    - Yes, get it retested. Check it at the appropriate time as well.

    I wouldn't expect to see huge gains on a normal dose of TRT. You really need to be in the super physiological range to see anything. You may also need something like anastrazole to reduce estrogen as well while taking TRT.

  9. #9
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    Try upping your Vitamin D intake.

  10. #10
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    May 2015
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    starting strength coach development program
    Thanks guys for taking the time to answer a confused swede.
    Can’t say I’m less confused now but I think I made a desicion:
    I will do the test witout trying to fail it. I need to know what’s going on for real even though I might miss my chance for TRT.

    The libido thing is the big deal for me, starting to think it’s a self perpetuating mental thing.
    It was quite a sudden drop, and even though it’s been a major nuisance from age 12 to 50, I admit I miss it like hell and been thinking about little else and possible solutions most of the time. Can’t be healthy. Tried almost everything too.
    So: Vitamin D? Really? How much?

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