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Thread: Sets and Reps Deadlift, Press Considerations, and Rest Time for Women

  1. #1
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    Default Sets and Reps Deadlift, Press Considerations, and Rest Time for Women

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    I am an intermediate male trying to help a 5 ft, 137 lb, 42 year old female with the Novice Linear Progression. I had the second edition of Starting Strength that I gave to my brother after finishing NLP, so I no longer have that for reference, since he lives out of state. However, I have the Barbell Prescription and Practical Programming, that I have read though looking for modifications to the program for females.

    1. In Practical Programming the deadlift is suggested for 3x5 even doing so three times per week at the beginning, then progressing to 5x3 towards the end of NLP. In the Barbell Prescription, it is only suggested to do 1x5 on the deadlift and then progressing to 2x3 towards the end of NLP, as necessary. Which set and rep scheme would work best for a 42 year old female? Both books suggest transitioning to the Texas Method after NLP has run its course, since females are more tolerant to higher frequency and volume at heavy loads, than males, so that is probably where we will try to head as NLP has run its course.


    2. On the bench and the press is it best to switch from 3x5 to 5x3 before micro-loading? If micro-loading is necessary (say 2.5 pound jumps) right after the first few sessions, is it best to change from 3x5 to 5x3 before dropping to smaller jumps (say 1.5 pounds) if things start to get grindy.

    3. For males, like myself, I rest 3 minutes between light sets, 6 minutes between medium sets and 8 minutes between heavy sets, if they are sets of five on any lift and it has worked well. On heavy triples I rest 5 or 6 minutes. On heavy doubles I rest 4 to 5 minutes. What rest time is reasonable for females on 3x5 at the beginning of NLP? What about when a female switches to 5x3 and things get heavier?

  2. #2
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    I'm a 40-year-old female, not quite 5'1". I started my NLP in late 2020 at a BW of 112 and now weigh 125.

    Deadlift. During my late NLP I was deadlifting for two triples once a week on my light squat day.

    I then transitioned to a 4-day split, with deadlifts for 2 triples once a week. My deadlift was in the low 200s at that point, and whenever I tried to increase deadlift frequency, it bit me in the ass.

    A better alternative has been to introduce the snatch-grip deadlift as a medium pull for 3 X 5. I find this lift helpful so far and wish I had discovered it earlier into my intermediate training. It is helping me internalize the "push the floor away from the bar" cue and does not seem to fatigue my lower-back like the squat and the deadlift do. Lower-back fatigue had been an issue during my late NLP and during my very first months of intermediate programming.

    Bench & Press. I started micro-loading with 2.5lbs pretty much right away on both lifts.

    For the press, I was able to keep progressing with 3 X 5 with lower weight increments (1lb), and eventually made the switch to 5 X 3. It worked well for me, but others might have a different take on this.

    For the bench, I switched to 5 X 3 before I started using smaller weight increments, but had to use 1lb jumps shortly after that.

    Since transitioning to the 4-day split, I have been doing the compressed TM for the upper-body lifts, with 5 X 3 on intensity days and 5 X 5 on volume days. For volume, the books recommend 6-8 triples for women, but I enjoy fahves and have been getting good results from them. I also like that doing 5 X 5 is less time consuming than doing up to 6-8 triples.

    Rest. During my NLP, I was resting for 3 minutes between sets, except for the squat. I started resting for 5 minutes when it got into the 160s.

    For the squat and deadlift, I now rest 5 minutes between heavy doubles or triples, but up to 7-8 minutes after a heavy set of 5.

    For the bench and the press, I still take 3 minutes between sets 1, 2 and 3, but often extend that to 4-5 minutes before the last two sets. For those two lifts, it doesn't matter whether I am doing sets of 3 or 5 reps. Even with press singles (a very recent addition to my program), I need 2 minutes between sets.


    If grip is an issue for the deadlift, do not hesitate to encourage her to use straps. I use figure-8 straps that I had custom made for my tiny hands. On a more controversial note, when my deadlift reached about 150lbs during my NLP, I started using a women's bar since the shorter shaft circumference makes it easier to hold. I know that women's bars are not intended for the deadlift but this enabled me to hold on to the bar (with an alternate grip) until my deadlift reached about 225. I then introduced straps and have been using a standard barbell ever since, except for the snatch-grip deadlift. It makes more sense to do this lift with the bar I use for actual power snatches.

    On a last note, lots of people seem skeptical about micro-loading, but it does work. I started using 1lb increments when my press reached 58lbs, and when my bench was in the low 90s. It sure takes patience but, so far, this has added almost 40lbs to each lift over time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
    1. In Practical Programming the deadlift is suggested for 3x5 even doing so three times per week at the beginning, then progressing to 5x3 towards the end of NLP. In the Barbell Prescription, it is only suggested to do 1x5 on the deadlift and then progressing to 2x3 towards the end of NLP, as necessary. Which set and rep scheme would work best for a 42 year old female? Both books suggest transitioning to the Texas Method after NLP has run its course, since females are more tolerant to higher frequency and volume at heavy loads, than males, so that is probably where we will try to head as NLP has run its course.
    this is incorrect.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    this is incorrect.
    PPST Chapter 9 in Section about Women:

    "Typically women will start training with sets of 5 just like men - 3 sets across for squats, benches, and presses. Women typically can do sets across for deadlifts as well, for the neuromuscular reasons already discussed. But after about 6-8 weeks, experience has shown that the novice progression lasts longer if the reps switch from 3 sets of 5 to 5 sets of 3 after the first sign of a slowdown."

    Table of NLP that follows on this same page:

    Week 7: Monday - Deadlift 145x5x3, Wednesday - Power Clean 70x3x5, Friday - Deadlift 150x5x3

    Week 8: Monday - Power Clean 72x3x5, Wednesday - Deadlift 155x5x2, 155x4, Friday - Power Clean 74x3x5

    Week 9: Monday - Deadlift 160x3x4, Wednesday - Power Clean 76x3x5, Friday - Deadlift 165x3x4

    Week 10: Monday - Power Clean 78x3x5, Wednesday - Deadlift 170x3x4, Friday - Power Clean 80x3x5

    Right after this table, it is discussed how to then transition to the Texas method.


    Barbell Prescription Chapter 27 in Section about Women Having Less Upper Body Strength:

    Table in this section:

    Week 1: Monday - Deadlift 75x5, Wednesday - Deadlift 85x5, Friday - Deadlift 95x5
    Week 2: Monday - Deadlift 105x5, Wednesday - Deadlift 115x5, Friday - Deadlift 120x5
    Week 3: Monday - Deadlift 125x3x2, Wednesday - Deadlift 135x3x2, Friday - Deadlift 140x3x2



    Note: I tried taking screenshots of these tables to add and they seem to have been highly compressed to the point where they are basically unreadable, so I typed the portions related to the deadlift.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny&mighty View Post
    I'm a 40-year-old female, not quite 5'1". I started my NLP in late 2020 at a BW of 112 and now weigh 125.

    Deadlift. During my late NLP I was deadlifting for two triples once a week on my light squat day.

    I then transitioned to a 4-day split, with deadlifts for 2 triples once a week. My deadlift was in the low 200s at that point, and whenever I tried to increase deadlift frequency, it bit me in the ass.

    A better alternative has been to introduce the snatch-grip deadlift as a medium pull for 3 X 5. I find this lift helpful so far and wish I had discovered it earlier into my intermediate training. It is helping me internalize the "push the floor away from the bar" cue and does not seem to fatigue my lower-back like the squat and the deadlift do. Lower-back fatigue had been an issue during my late NLP and during my very first months of intermediate programming.

    Bench & Press. I started micro-loading with 2.5lbs pretty much right away on both lifts.

    For the press, I was able to keep progressing with 3 X 5 with lower weight increments (1lb), and eventually made the switch to 5 X 3. It worked well for me, but others might have a different take on this.

    For the bench, I switched to 5 X 3 before I started using smaller weight increments, but had to use 1lb jumps shortly after that.

    Since transitioning to the 4-day split, I have been doing the compressed TM for the upper-body lifts, with 5 X 3 on intensity days and 5 X 5 on volume days. For volume, the books recommend 6-8 triples for women, but I enjoy fahves and have been getting good results from them. I also like that doing 5 X 5 is less time consuming than doing up to 6-8 triples.

    Rest. During my NLP, I was resting for 3 minutes between sets, except for the squat. I started resting for 5 minutes when it got into the 160s.

    For the squat and deadlift, I now rest 5 minutes between heavy doubles or triples, but up to 7-8 minutes after a heavy set of 5.

    For the bench and the press, I still take 3 minutes between sets 1, 2 and 3, but often extend that to 4-5 minutes before the last two sets. For those two lifts, it doesn't matter whether I am doing sets of 3 or 5 reps. Even with press singles (a very recent addition to my program), I need 2 minutes between sets.


    If grip is an issue for the deadlift, do not hesitate to encourage her to use straps. I use figure-8 straps that I had custom made for my tiny hands. On a more controversial note, when my deadlift reached about 150lbs during my NLP, I started using a women's bar since the shorter shaft circumference makes it easier to hold. I know that women's bars are not intended for the deadlift but this enabled me to hold on to the bar (with an alternate grip) until my deadlift reached about 225. I then introduced straps and have been using a standard barbell ever since, except for the snatch-grip deadlift. It makes more sense to do this lift with the bar I use for actual power snatches.

    On a last note, lots of people seem skeptical about micro-loading, but it does work. I started using 1lb increments when my press reached 58lbs, and when my bench was in the low 90s. It sure takes patience but, so far, this has added almost 40lbs to each lift over time.
    Thank you! This is all very helpful in filling in the gaps, where males and females differ.

  6. #6
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    Northern USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
    I am an intermediate male trying to help a 5 ft, 137 lb, 42 year old female with the Novice Linear Progression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
    PPST Chapter 9 in Section about Women
    You're reading the wrong chapter. Chapter 6 covers the novice linear progression. On page 86 under the heading The Starting Strength Model, Rip wrote: "As outlined in SS:BBT, a novice ... does three work sets (except for the deadlift) ... "

  7. #7
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramus View Post
    You're reading the wrong chapter. Chapter 6 covers the novice linear progression. On page 86 under the heading The Starting Strength Model, Rip wrote: "As outlined in SS:BBT, a novice ... does three work sets (except for the deadlift) ... "
    I read Chapter 6 of PPST in hopes of finding what modifications are necessary for female trainees. There is a paragraph at the end of the chapter under the heading Female Trainees, which says:

    "Women who are young, old, fit or fat will progress at a slower rate than men. Females will progress at a disproportionately fast rate on squat and deadlifts as compared to bench presses, presses and cleans. Females will progress with 5 and even 10 lb increments on the squats and deadlifts for several weeks but will almost immediately require microloading for the upper body exercises. Extremely high-calorie diets are not as effective for women as they are for men. The female body simply cannot process the excess calories for productive muscle building purposes as quickly as male trainees, due to the profound hormonal differences in the two sexes. Progress will always be slower, absolute strength improvements will always be lower, and upper-body strength will always lag wehind lower-body strength when compared to men of even the same bodyweight. Sorry We can't have a multiple orgasm. "

    This gives some nice general differences, but nothing specific enough to help with programming. In Chapter 9 in the first paragraph it says:

    "Do the training models presented here, when applied at the appropriate level - novice, intermediate, and advanced - work for all populations? Do they work for women, children, older people, and injured people?"

    The first section is on women. Not to far into that section there is a subsection on Novice & Intermediate Training. In that section there is a table where there is reference to using 3x5 on the deadlift and then progressing to 5x3 as necessary in a "Example novice progression, 1-month snapshot". There is text before this discussing this too. The next subsection discusses how to transition to the Texas method when novice gains are no longer possible.


    I ended up following the deadlift recommendations from the Barbell Prescription, since she is just barely a masters lifter. So we started with 1x5 on the deadlift and then progressed to 2x3 when necessary. If she was 10 years younger I would have followed what PPST suggested.

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