Tricky question about RFD

[Eric Larousse]

How is that that a guy can have a ~20 vertical which is supposed to be the standard test for fast twitch dominate athlete but yet that same person can throw a baseball -88-90?

Ok im using myself as an example but I have seen vice versa as well where a guy can do showcase style dunks but cant throw a ball for beans in athletes during my life.

Granted as much i threw the ball(i dont know for sure)but im assuming over all the throws across my life that my RFD was just more specifically prepared to that activity.

So I guess this begs the question that if a guy trains for olympic lifting or even just a high jumper over the course of his life can develope RFD to the specific task even if the vertical jump(the standard test)shows he is a shitty RFD athlete?

Hope that makes sense...ive been trying to come up in my head why this happens but I cant come up with a conclusive hypothesis that makes sense to explain it.

[spacediver]

I think that at least part of the answer is that in throwing movements, "passive torque" may account for a lot of the performance.

Think of a whip. You generate a wave at the thick heavy leathery end near the hand, and that wave travels up to the tapered thin end. Conservation of momentum means that the product of mass and velocity is conserved. At the lighter end, this means that velocity must increase. The crack of a whip is actually a sonic boom, as it is traveling faster than the speed of sound.

In a throw, or a tennis serve, a similar phenomenon is thought to occur, where rotation of the torso can be thought of as the heavy end of the whip. Staying loose is an important part of throwing technique, the idea being that you can allow momentum to be channeled from the heavier segments of the kinetic chain into the lighter ones.

I remember hearing about a study where a nerve blocking agent was given to the triceps of baseball pitchers, and they were still able to throw pretty fast (I'd have to check this reference).

[Murelli]

I think that at least part of the answer is that in throwing movements, "passive torque" may account for a lot of the performance.

Think of a whip. You generate a wave at the thick heavy leathery end near the hand, and that wave travels up to the tapered thin end. Conservation of momentum means that the product of mass and velocity is conserved. At the lighter end, this means that velocity must increase. The crack of a whip is actually a sonic boom, as it is traveling faster than the speed of sound.

In a throw, or a tennis serve, a similar phenomenon is thought to occur, where rotation of the torso can be thought of as the heavy end of the whip. Staying loose is an important part of throwing technique, the idea being that you can allow momentum to be channeled from the heavier segments of the kinetic chain into the lighter ones.

I remember hearing about a study where a nerve blocking agent was given to the triceps of baseball pitchers, and they were still able to throw pretty fast (I'd have to check this reference).

Wow, it looks like pretty sound logic to me. Just like punching "with the body" in boxing.

[blandrick]

I think that at least part of the answer is that in throwing movements, "passive torque" may account for a lot of the performance.

Think of a whip. You generate a wave at the thick heavy leathery end near the hand, and that wave travels up to the tapered thin end. Conservation of momentum means that the product of mass and velocity is conserved. At the lighter end, this means that velocity must increase. The crack of a whip is actually a sonic boom, as it is traveling faster than the speed of sound.

In a throw, or a tennis serve, a similar phenomenon is thought to occur, where rotation of the torso can be thought of as the heavy end of the whip. Staying loose is an important part of throwing technique, the idea being that you can allow momentum to be channeled from the heavier segments of the kinetic chain into the lighter ones.

I remember hearing about a study where a nerve blocking agent was given to the triceps of baseball pitchers, and they were still able to throw pretty fast (I'd have to check this reference).

I think anthropometry probably plays a role too, in throwing movements. If two people can perform shoulder rotation at the same speed, but person A's arm is a foot longer than person B's, A's throw will (should?) be faster because of the longer lever, assuming identical mechanics. Throwing is a fairly technical thing too, at least relative to testing vertical jump. Mechanics, and the ability to ingrain and correctly perform the movement is certainly a factor.

[DodgerDog]

This is me. I'm slow as fuck and can't jump for shit. 7.94 60 yard dash in high school baseball. That is like the 10-15th percentile. Always one of the slowest and weakest kids on my team. But, as a 6'3" 180 lb 16 year old I could run my fastball up to 90 mph before I got injured. Today I've got my club head speed golfing clocked at 130 mph.

I think a lot of it has to do with coordination and effective transfer of power and speed up through the kinetic chain. (or whatever you want to call it)

[MBasic]

This is me. I'm slow as fuck and can't jump for shit. 7.94 60 yard dash in high school baseball. That is like the 10-15th percentile. Always one of the slowest and weakest kids on my team. But, as a 6'3" 180 lb 16 year old I could run my fastball up to 90 mph before I got injured. Today I've got my club head speed golfing clocked at 130 mph.

I think a lot of it has to do with coordination and effective transfer of power and speed up through the kinetic chain. (or whatever you want to call it)

. . .different type/twitch fibers in different parts of the body. Does not surprise me (the original post, idea in this thread).

[John Hanley]

Is 88-90 all that fast?

[DodgerDog]

Is 88-90 all that fast?

Ya 88-90 is pretty good. Major League average is about 92.3 mph, up from 89 mph in 2002. Aroldis Chapman had the highest average velocity at 100.4 mph last year.

[Eric Larousse]

no it isnt all that fast compared to major league pitchers(the majority of them) but when you see a guy that can windmill between the legs dunk and then cant throw a ball but 78mph it is quite a phenomena

[DodgerDog]

no it isnt all that fast compared to major league pitchers(the majority of them) but when you see a guy that can windmill between the legs dunk and then cant throw a ball but 78mph it is quite a phenomena

Don't sell yourself short, that's better than Jered Weaver