Intermediate Programming

[Ryan82]

1) Age / sex?
37 male

2) Current Body Weight?
6'1" 255

3) Current programming (what program are you using).
Starting strength lp

4) How long have you been on current programming?
2 months

5) Starting body weight (what was your body weight when you started lifting? Started current program?).
265

6) Increment you are using on the lift in question. When did you switch to this increment? What was the previous Increment for the lift in question?
5lbs squat, deadlift, bench, press

7) Caloric intake (in calories-ish. The answer "sufficient caloric intake" is totally insufficient).
About 1500-2000. following fat guy diet plan in practical programming, which is very low carb and moderate fat.

8) Protien Intake (gr/day)
250 grams

9) Amount of rest between sets (work sets).
8 minutes squat, 6 minutes bench and press

10) What weight you started the program at (weight on the bar for the lift in question) and a detailed description of how long, what increments were used, and what kind of breaks / vacations / etc caused a disruption in the programming).
This is not exact since I lost my data in ss app. 135 squat now 305. 135-185 deadlift, now 315. Lower back feels how I imagine arthritis to feel all of the time. Hard to put on my socks while standing, hurts too bad to progress furthur in squat and deadlift but I feel like I still have the strength to lift the weight. Deloaded last set of squats to 275 and felt good.

Bench is at 180 for fives.
press at 130 for fives last set felt like a grind.

11) Other activity that you are engaging in (sports, hobbies, job that causes physical exertion). Training in preparation for downhill skiing. I go hard and fast for 6 hours 1-2 times a week once the season starts.

12) What equipment is available to you....I added this question.

Garage gym: Power rack, Olympic barbell, fractional weights set, pullups bar, dips station, 55 lbs adjustable dumbbells, ez curl bar, French press triceps bar, excersize bike.

So I know I am not eating enough calories but I really need to get less fat and lighter by ski season, 230 would be nice but I am more concerned about lower body fat am keeping muscle. I get 6 hours of sleep during the week and I work 40-60 hours a week. This is all making me hit the lp wall sooner than normal. I feel like my back is the first area to give up to overeaching and is not recovering fast enough. I am also feeling like the ss program lifting sessions are starting to take too long with the 8 minutes rest periods.

I know my numbers aren't the best but I am in this for the long haul. I am trying to figure out a good long term program that fits into my lifestyle for general Health and appearance. I want to keep it as simple as possible. I read practical programming and am leaning towards the one lift a day type program without adding in the set/rep variations of 5x5, 5x3, 5x1 which seems confusing. Here is what I put together and I would welcome any criticism and tips.

Monday
Squat 3x5
Stiff leg DL 3x8-10
Chinups 3x2-12

Wed
Bench 3x5
Dips 3x10-12
Curls 3x10-12

Fri
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Rows 3x10-12

[Michael Wolf]

Thanks for reading the sticky and answering the Qs, even if you made a helluva long as post. Still prefer this to the absolutely context-less questions we usually get.

Let's talk about a few things.

First, your back. You say:

Lower back feels how I imagine arthritis to feel all of the time. Hard to put on my socks while standing, hurts too bad to progress furthur in squat and deadlift

This is not good sir, not good at all. Novices sometimes do describe things in ways that they'll later laugh at when they gain more experience, so it might just be your lack of context, but it's still enough to worry me. Your back should not feel like this, at all. Fatigue, sure. Arthritic at 37, when your squat and DL are only in the low 300s at 255 bodyweight? No.

I'm going to make two guesses:
1. You need a form check on your squat and DL, pronto, and we will likely find some back related stuff that needs to be cleaned up...
and/or
2. You are still deadlifting and trying to add 5 lbs too frequently, and probably in the squat, too (still trying to grind out 3x/week increased of 5 lbs, even on a huge caloric deficit, instead of accepting reality and switching to advanced novice).

I am willing to bet a Coke Zero, to quote my friend Comrade Campitelli, that at least one of those two things is in play here. And wouldn't be at all surprised if both of them are.

Second, let's talk about your nutrition. It's true that a calorie restriction / eating at a big deficit - and 1500-2000 cals a day is going to be a pretty big deficit for a 255 lb man - will shorten your LP. If you need to lose the weight, and you probably do, then a caloric deficit is fine. But I'm a little suspect here. How could you have been eating 1500-2000 cals a day for 2 months, doing SS, and only have gone from 265 to 255. Something doesn't add up.

My inclination would be to try something a little less deficit-y and see how you do (like 2000 on off days and 2500 on training days), but first you need to clear up some other things. Have you had issues with compliance? I just don't think you'd only have lost 10 lbs in nearly 9 weeks, your first 9 weeks especially, on that kind of deficit.

[Ryan82]

Hi Michael, thanks for the reply!

1. You need a form check on your squat and DL, pronto, and we will likely find some back related stuff that needs to be cleaned up...

I agree with you and will try to get a video up soon.

2. You are still deadlifting and trying to add 5 lbs too frequently, and probably in the squat, too (still trying to grind out 3x/week increased of 5 lbs, even on a huge caloric deficit, instead of accepting reality and switching to advanced novice).

Copy that, I will make the switch to advanced novice and start microloading with the fractional plates.

Second, let's talk about your nutrition. It's true that a calorie restriction / eating at a big deficit - and 1500-2000 cals a day is going to be a pretty big deficit for a 255 lb man - will shorten your LP. If you need to lose the weight, and you probably do, then a caloric deficit is fine. But I'm a little suspect here. How could you have been eating 1500-2000 cals a day for 2 months, doing SS, and only have gone from 265 to 255. Something doesn't add up.

To clarify, first 5-6 weeks consisted of paleo foods with carbs and weekend cheat nights, and I wasn't counting calories. Last 3 weeks I have been on the 1500 to 2000 calorie low carb paleo diet from practical programming.

My inclination would be to try something a little less deficit-y and see how you do (like 2000 on off days and 2500 on training days), but first you need to clear up some other things. Have you had issues with compliance? I just don't think you'd only have lost 10 lbs in nearly 9 weeks, your first 9 weeks especially, on that kind of deficit.

I have cut out weekend cheat nights since switching to the pp diet, and I am going to try adding in some clean carbs on my training days.

I see you recommend me sticking with novice progression which I will. But once ski season starts what do you think about my attempt at tailoring a less taxing and simple intermediate program that I want to maintain strength and add lbs slowly?

[Michael Wolf]

Get that form check up. Make sure to ready the sticky about filming, too.

No need for fractionals for squat and DL, though almost certainly appropriate to start using them for PR and BP at this point.

Once ski season starts - that depends how often you ski, for how long, which days, etc? LP might be very do-able, or might be impossible, depending. You plan to do what you wrote above: 6 hours at a time, once a week?

[Ryan82]

I plan on skiing hard on the weekends 6 hours at a time which is very taxing. And also doing a possible third day midweek when I feel like it. So some weeks I go once, others up to 3 days, depends on the conditions and how I feel.

My intermediate program is a Mon wed Fri, trying to keep the workout to an hour and move the weight up once a week. I the weight doesn't go up i would adjust the volume that week. This is just a rough draft.

Monday
Squat 3x5
Stiff leg DL 3x8-10
Chinups 3x2-12

Wed
Bench 3x5
Dips 3x10-12
Curls 3x10-12

Fri
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Rows 3x10-12

[Michael Wolf]

If you're going to do challenging skiing for 12 hours every weekend, how do you think that might effect Monday's squat workout - your only one of the week? If deadlifting heavy makes your back feel arthritic, why in the world would you plan one maximal set of deadlifts on Friday, the day before you begin your 2 days a week of hard skiing, for which you're willing to abandon the novice program? I was going to say that it doesn't look like you've thought about this a lot, but that would be too charitable. It actually doesn't look like you've thought about this at all.

And why would you post a new thread for your form check, instead of just posting it here, where you know I will see it instead of another coach who may not have seen the OP that led to my request for a video? We can answer specific questions for you, we can't do all your thinking for you. Please prepare and think a little bit before posting.

[Ryan82]

I apologise for not posting my form checks in here. It did cross my mind and I chose wrong. I won't let it happen again 😓

You are also correct that my programming plan is not fitting in too well with my lifestyle. I am simply trying to draft a plan for 2 months from now that will work well. That is why I am asking for some guidance.

I was frustratingly trying to make my own intermediate program from the practical programming book yesterday when I thought to ask. You caught me in the middle on a bad thought process, embarrassing. Today I decided that it is beyond my scope of understanding and have been looking at perhaps the garage gym warrior as a start. I will leave the programming to the experts.

Hey, are we cool now bro..👊

[Michael Wolf]

Haha that was a good conciliatory reply. Yes. Going through that process is good, and you'll learn from it even if you end up just paying a coach for programming. Andy is a good choice. If you do have specific questions after going through that process and thinking things through, we may be able to help as long as it's not outrageously time consuming or personalized (that's what you hire a coach for). But in the middle of the process, just wait. As you have now learned.

[Ryan82]

Dude, you left me hanging there. 😴🤜 Soooooooo.....should I post those form checks in here since I already posted them incorrectly? 😓

[Michael Wolf]

Yes, post it here.