Linear Progession Stalling

[Bschenck88]

Hey guys,

I just wrapped up my 2nd week of Starting Strength, and I’ve loved the results I’ve been getting. This week though, I’ve felt like I’m stalling. I began the week increasing my squats from 145 to 150, and my deadlifts from 165 to 170. Last week my previous weights felt great, I was hitting below parallel in my squat and form for both lifts was solid. Now? I’m really struggling with the increased weight.

I’m struggling to hit parallel in my squats, and tend to lift right before breaking. The weight feels god awful, and my form isn’t great. Instead of lifting straight up, I’ve noticed I have a tendency lean forward in the lift and kind of arch it back to the starting position as I straighten out.

With my deadlifts, I was only able to get 170 for reps of 3 the first day of the week, then I got 4 with an ugly cat backed 5th rep. Tonight I got 5, and still had a slight round in my back, but not as bad.

I’m sleeping 7-8 hours a night, I’m getting 150g of protein a day, and I’m averaging about 1700-1800 calories per day. I’m 145 and 5’3”, if you need that for the calorie stuff.

My question is, what am I doing wrong? I haven’t started alternating my deadlift with the power clean, but my plan is to introduce that on Friday, which is the start of my next week of training. In listening to the Barbell Logic podcast, I know they talked about switching women from 3 sets of 5 reps to 5 sets of 3 reps at a certain point in their training. Is it time for me to switch to that for my squat/deadlift?

If more info is needed, let me know. I love this program, and what y’all are doing, so thank you!

Brittany Schenck

[Michael Wolf]

Hey Brittany Schenck,

The first thing I'd like to do is look at a video of your squat. Though it sounds like you have a handle on some of the things going wrong, sometimes a coaches eye view can give more insight and suggestions for fixes. So get that up here soon, if you can.

I would say to switch to alternating the DL with cleans immediately. Though at this point it seems likely that "immediately" will be Friday anyway. Depending on your lifting/athletic background, you may have started a bit too heavy or made jumps that were too large in the very beginning - not sure because you didn't detail that part.

So, in sum, I'd say:
1. Get a video up of your squat and DL. One work set of five reps, each.
2. Let us know what your starting weight was, and what your prior training history and PRs (if any) are.
3. Make sure you read "The First Three Questions" article and are resting enough between sets, and that you didn't make large jumps in the beginning. 5 lbs should be fine. The First Three Questions | Mark Rippetoe
4. A slight calorie bump may be called for, but I'd like to know more about #s 1-3 before calling for that. 150g protein should be fine, and 1700-1800 cals is likely in the right ballpark, so isn't a totally obvious automatic "eat more" situation. It may be that a little more is useful, but let's deal with the more likely issues first.

[Bschenck88]

Thank you for getting back so quickly! While my videos are uploading to YouTube, I’ll go ahead and answer your questions.

1. Working on that, they should be up in a couple of minutes.
2. I’ve lifted for several years, but mostly with body part splits, and more bodybuilding geared programs. About 4 months ago, I started lifting heavy. I had to stop lifting for about a month due to a pregnancy, and then started Starting Strength after losing the baby. Sorry for TMI, I just wanted to explain the gap. When I quit lifting for that month, my pb on deadlift was 155 and “squat” was 185. I struggled with mobility issues for a long time and didn’t actually get parallel when hitting that weight. When I started with Starting Strength on 10/31, I switched to low bar squat, and really worked with mobility to finally acheive parallel. My starting weight on on squat was 135, and I increased my weight each session after that by 5lbs until I hit 150lbs. With my deadlifts, I started at 145, increased the next session by 10, then increased by 5 every session after that.

As a side note, I was hitting right above parallel on my squats until I hit 140lbs. I wonder if part of my problem is that I didn’t spend enough time training with breaking parallel.

3. I explained my weight jumps in question 2. I’m getting 7-8 hours of sleep a night, and I’m not doing any accessory work or cardio on my off days. Inbetween sets I’m resting 5 minutes.

[Bschenck88]

Ok, here are the videos. I know my back is slightly rounded on my deadlift, but it wasn’t just 5lbs less at 165lbs. That weight went up easy, and then I hit 170, and was only able to get 3 reps the firsts time I attempted it. I got 4 and an ugly 5 on my second attempt. This is my 3rd attempt at this weight:

170lb deadlift - YouTube

This is also my 3rd attempt at this weight. I’ve been able to get 5 reps each time, but am struggling with my form and breaking parallel. Here’s the squat video:

YouTube

Thanks again for your feedback!!

[Michael Wolf]

OK, here's what I see/think:

Deadlift - note that a front oblique view would be super helpful here, as per the sticky
You're using a double overhand grip with no chalk, aren't you? If I'm right, get some chalk and start using it immediately, and turn a hand over to use the mixed/alternating grip. It's quite astounding the first time you experience how much better a lift goes when your grip on it is secure. Even if you didn't previously know your grip was insecure.

Additionally:
1. Start with the bar slightly closer to your shins, so when your shins touch the bar, your knees are just a touch less bent and your hips will be higher. SQUEEZE CHEST UP HARD from this position so your back is completely flat. Don't do this squeeze-up like a quick jerky motion, but as a slow wave that starts at the top and forms a wave that travels all the way down your back.

2. Initiate your deadlift with knee extension, not hip extension. Meaning that right off the floor, your back angle will only change a little but your knees will straighten out quite a bit. Again, this isn't a jerky "all at once" thing where your knees shoot back suddenly, but your knees will extend more than your torso gets vertical in the initial pull off the floor.

This uses your back muscles in their intended role, isometrically, instead of trying to make them actually lift the weight, which they aren't meant to do and aren't particularly good at compared to the larger muscles of your quads, glutes, etc.

Once the bar is up past your knees, THEN your torso angle will really change to become more vertical.

These two videos will be helpful. #1 regarding the DL in general, #2 regarding that squeeze-up.




Squat - note that a rear oblique view would be super helpful here, as per the sticky

So you're not quite getting depth here. It's our collective experience that 99.9% of the time, it's stance width and technique that facilitate depth in the low bar squat and mobility isn't an issue. Overhead squats and front squats, for example, have greater mobility demands that not everyone can do without some more work, but this is almost never the case in the low bar squat.

So I'd really, REALLY like to see a rear oblique or direct rear view to assess your stance and foot position, as well as see what your knees are doing.

That said: you need to go a bit deeper. Additionally:

1. Stop to breathe and brace between reps - get a big giant breath in with big air in your lungs, clamp down to hold it, then brace your abs like someone is going to punch you in the stomach. This process takes a few seconds (breathe prior rep out, get new breath, brace), so the fact that you're not even taking a full second between reps means you're not doing any of it. No breath is taken in or breathed out, AT ALL, during the rep. Only at the top between reps.

2. You're lifting your chest. You've gotta learn to drive your hips. Don't try to get more vertical when you stand up. Lean over on the way down and keep your back angle exactly the same as you drive your hips up. Think about shoving your ass emphatically into the air, not making your torso more vertical.


You will need to take some weight off the bar to get these things right and drilled in. Exactly how much I don't know without being there with you in person but I'd guess squatting about 125 and deadlifting about 140-145. That's just a guess and I may be wrong.

[Bschenck88]

Ok, I tried your suggestions today, and, no surprise here, they made a huge difference. I tried to keep my back angle throughout the motion of the squat to focus on hip drive. Hopefully my squat looks better. I still feel like I’m not quite hitting parallel, so maybe there’s something wrong with my stance.

As requested, here is a back view of my squat with 125lbs:

125lb squat - YouTube

And a view at 45 degrees with the same weight:

YouTube

[Michael Wolf]

Depth (assessed from the oblique vid) was better here. Good on the first three reps and borderline on the last two - better than high on all five reps, for sure. Get that depth you got on the first three for the whole set. A couple other things:
1. Turn your toes slightly less out
2. Still need more time between reps to breathe out, breathe back in a new breath that you'll hold the next rep, and brace your trunk for battle.
3. Make sure to stay midfoot as you drive hips up, don't let the bar get forward on you.