Stalling on Modified Old Man Texas/WM

[Steve Hill]

I don’t want to row Wolf’s boat for him, but I’m going to throw the flag on the sleep.

Sleep is important, but in my book, is a distant third place (I put hormonal balance / adequacy ahead of sleep in importance) from adequate nutrition (a caloric surplus with adequate protein intake) when considering recovery. So, I see one of several potential problems:

1) You are not getting the nutrition that you think you are
2) Your sleep *quality* is horribly shitty, and also less in quantity that you are saying as well.
3) There is a hormonal issue (I rate this as extremely unlikely, but worth investigating AFTER you nail down #1 or 2, since you do not complain of any of the other salutary symptoms associated with it.
4) Another consideration is the *slight* weekly increase in volume? But as Bear Jew said, there’s not THAT much of an increase that should make you say “killing me.”

I’d look really, really hard at #1. All the signs point to it as the source of your problems. You are either getting insufficient calories, you’re eating junk calories, or you have inadequate protein intake. That’s my bet. The statement that your recovery has *always* been mediocre is what makes me look at this as the probable issue. Clean up your diet, make sure you’re getting adequate protein FIRST, get a FitBit Surge 2 (or borrow one) or a similar smart watch that will monitor sleep quantity / quality, and start keeping a diary.

[Intricate35]

I don’t want to row Wolf’s boat for him, but I’m going to throw the flag on the sleep.

Sleep is important, but in my book, is a distant third place (I put hormonal balance / adequacy ahead of sleep in importance) from adequate nutrition (a caloric surplus with adequate protein intake) when considering recovery. So, I see one of several potential problems:

1) You are not getting the nutrition that you think you are
2) Your sleep *quality* is horribly shitty, and also less in quantity that you are saying as well.
3) There is a hormonal issue (I rate this as extremely unlikely, but worth investigating AFTER you nail down #1 or 2, since you do not complain of any of the other salutary symptoms associated with it.
4) Another consideration is the *slight* weekly increase in volume? But as Bear Jew said, there’s not THAT much of an increase that should make you say “killing me.”

I’d look really, really hard at #1. All the signs point to it as the source of your problems. You are either getting insufficient calories, you’re eating junk calories, or you have inadequate protein intake. That’s my bet. The statement that your recovery has *always* been mediocre is what makes me look at this as the probable issue. Clean up your diet, make sure you’re getting adequate protein FIRST, get a FitBit Surge 2 (or borrow one) or a similar smart watch that will monitor sleep quantity / quality, and start keeping a diary.

1. I can say with absolute certainty it’s not diet, this is the one area I have complete control of. I used to be rather fat 299, and took diet seriously to get down to 191. I track this daily already. I’ve added significant muscle weight eating like a “beast” per Jordan. 250 high quality protein per day, 300 grams of carbs from veggies and potatoes mostly. The rest from fat. High quality sources as well (organic high quality steak cooked sous vide for the most part). 3000-4000 calories depending on the day. Barring a tapeworm I can’t see this being the issue.

I also take protein, follow Jordan’s timing for dosing BCAAs, creatine, and beta alanine.

2. My sleep could be a little worse depending on the day. Some days it’s 5 hours max. Also, my sleep is interrupted at least once a night at 4 am everyday (Spouse gets ready for work in our master bath). I travel 3-4 days a week as well so some nights are hotel room sleep.

3. What symptoms? I have developed type 2 diabetes in said trek to 299. It is now under control due to diet (as stated above). I do experience what I’d classify as abnormal pain in my joints when I squat. This is actually what prompted this entire chain of events by asking if that’s normal when the weight gets heavy.

4. Is the Deadlift going from 1x every 5 workouts to 2x a week considered here? I’m still thinking this could be part of it since my deads that have regressed. I’m only have squat form issues but still hitting the weight on ID. Deadlifts won’t budge.

Thank you as well for your input!

[Michael Wolf]

Since I'm running "the Wolf Method" right now, I thought I'd chime in...Hope my experience helps!

Thanks for sharing this, Brian.

I do have a set of questions for Wolf while I'm here: For the taper weeks, I was planning on hitting the last of the three singles this first time through at the next increment up (i.e. 5 pounds) each time, so for squat that would look like:
1: 320x1x5
2: 305x1, 315x1, 325x1
3: 310x1, 320x1, 330x1

Is that too conservative? should I be that conservative this first time through and then be more aggressive the next time? And as a follow up, for the next time through, would I look at hitting the weights I hit for doubles the first time through as triples? e.g. first intensity day after light week would be 300x3x2, because that was my first doubles workout of the first time?

Thanks again for your time and response.

If you've never done this before, just use the 5 lb increments. It may in fact be below your threshold and "too conservative" - but only in the narrow sense that you could've done more that day. The point here isn't to bring you to a true peak and hit your absolute true 1RM. This first time through, you're just gaining experience, first in increased weekly volume and the skill of handling heavier weights for lower reps, then a slight taper and mini-peak and the resultant PRs - also giving you further exposure to that skill, teaching you how to work through heavy weights, how it feels to handle them, and how much gas you actually do have left in the tank. You can use that experience to push the envelope a little more in future times you taper and peak.

[Brian Goldstein]

Thanks for sharing this, Brian.



If you've never done this before, just use the 5 lb increments. It may in fact be below your threshold and "too conservative" - but only in the narrow sense that you could've done more that day. The point here isn't to bring you to a true peak and hit your absolute true 1RM. This first time through, you're just gaining experience, first in increased weekly volume and the skill of handling heavier weights for lower reps, then a slight taper and mini-peak and the resultant PRs - also giving you further exposure to that skill, teaching you how to work through heavy weights, how it feels to handle them, and how much gas you actually do have left in the tank. You can use that experience to push the envelope a little more in future times you taper and peak.

Thanks!

[Michael Wolf]

3000-4000 cals is a big range but you do seem to be eating pretty well. Here's what I see:

I travel 3-4 days a week as well so some nights are hotel room sleep.

Maybe you adapt to it, but travel always takes something out of me. This could be a factor as well.

I do experience what I’d classify as abnormal pain in my joints when I squat. This is actually what prompted this entire chain of events by asking if that’s normal when the weight gets heavy.

A form check sounds like a very good idea.

4. Is the Deadlift going from 1x every 5 workouts to 2x a week considered here? I’m still thinking this could be part of it since my deads that have regressed. I’m only have squat form issues but still hitting the weight on ID. Deadlifts won’t budge.

I'll grant that I haven't directly transitioned anyone from LP to WM going from once every 5 workouts to the 2x/week of WM, because I don't let DL frequency ever drop to less than once a week, but I've made the transition from once a week back to twice a week with the volume/intensity variance, and no one has had any trouble. If someone was coming off the once in 5 workouts plan, I'd probably start with only one set of five on the lighter day, then after 2 weeks, add the second set but drop the average intensity a bit. So maybe one set at 70% and one set at 80%. The next week 75% and 80%, and then - about 5 weeks in - you'd be doing the 2 sets @80% on the volumey DL day.

However, that being said, I still don't understand why you'd have regressed so much on DL except for recovery issues. Typically we see the DL crash at the end of LP because of fatigue accumulation finally catching up. But we see things like smooth sailing, let's say 325x5, 330x5, 335x5 - all go smoothly, no issues, then 340x1 or 2 reps. If you think about it, even if 335x5 was an absolute 5RM, that predicts that 340 should be able to be lifted for 4, not 1-2 reps. So even if the person didn't get any stronger as a result of the workouts in between the two DL attempts, they should be able to do 340x4. So why does this happen and why do we see it fairly regularly? Lack of recovery resulting in fatigue accumulation. That's a big reason why re-sets work.

But anyway, as it relates to you, it doesn't make sense for you to have gotten weaker so quickly, that just doesn't happen. Even if you were DLing infrequently, if you could pull 395x5, then doing 315x5x2 isn't an especially stressful event that would make you unable to pull 395x3 four days later due only to that. Basically, what I keep telling you that you seem to keep trying to get around is that the cause of your lack of recovery is NOT the difficulty of the program, but something you're doing, or not doing.

If we have eliminated nutrition as a cause, then the obvious remains - as our buddy Sherlock would say. Your return from an entire month off + extra recovery to a rigorous work schedule with 3-4 days per week travel and limited sleep. That's it. Since you can't change that short of quitting your job - which I assume is not an option - then either re-set all your weights by 10-15% and see if you can work back up from there, or as I suggested earlier, go on an HLM program with a less demanding schedule and allow yourself to go heavier on days you're feeling especially good.

[Steve Hill]

3. What symptoms? I have developed type 2 diabetes in said trek to 299. It is now under control due to diet (as stated above). I do experience what I’d classify as abnormal pain in my joints when I squat. This is actually what prompted this entire chain of events by asking if that’s normal when the weight gets heavy.

General hormonal imbalance issues would include inability to recover from heavy exercise, fatigue, depression, lack of desire, erectile performance issues, etc. It's a big list, and they are all part of a spectrum that makes pointing at hormones and saying "There's the rpoblem!" very hard to do, which is why I strongly doubt this is the issue.

Go here: Resources | Barbell Medicine
and here: Barbell Medicine | Free Listening on SoundCloud

And read / listen to everything on hormones, testosterone, etc. It's all there, and again, I STRONGLY doubt that this is the issue, because it would have reared it's head during your LP.

[Intricate35]

Thank you again for all the info. It's definitely my recovery. This week, I took some time off work (3 hours on days before lifting) and took naps to get the equivalent of 8 hours a day sleep. I raised calories to 4k (instead of 3-4).

Did ID yesterday and everything went up without my drama. Here is my 405 dead for 2x2 (looks like I rolled the bar before the second pull and got it bouncing off my shins/offbalance):

YouTube

I plan on riding it out and taking it easy on my progression. If my recovery just doesn't allow for it I'll switch to HLM (reluctantly). I say that because i like the idea of a more Volumey/Intensity type workout vs moderate weight always HLM. I still feel "small" compared to the weights I can lift, and was looking forward to getting some extra volume as an intermediate to add some size.

In the interim, I'll lower the Deads on Day 1 a bit, and help acclimate myself to that volume even more. Thank you Mike and Steve for all of your support and information. I'll post form videos as suggested next week to make sure I'm not getting off on anything. The grind continues and if there is anything I can do to repay your help let me know. If you ever need a place to stay when visiting CA let me know! I'd love to lift with ya!

[Michael Wolf]

Those reps moved fast - suggesting, yet again - that if you couldn't budge 395, it was a local recovery issue that has (hopefully) passed, but you need to be careful of with your lack of sleep and traveling lifestyle.

Technique wise, I'd look at a slightly narrower stance. You might be fine where you are, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility, but I'd try a slightly narrower stance first. Also, it doesn't appear that you set your back at all. While this is not a good angle for a deadlift form check (see the sticky), and we can't see your back, the fact that you don't spend any time squeezing it up tells me you're not setting it, even if I can't see it. Don't forget Step 4.

[Intricate35]

Thanks Mike. Funny how when I'm doing the reps they feel like they are moving at a snails pace.

As for the technique. This is how it looks from the side:

YouTube

This was about a month ago during LP, but my set up is identical. I dips my hips, squeeze right before the pull, and try to explode up. I have tried the standard set up of pulling the slack out slowly after setting the shins, and then pulling from a higher hip position, but can't seem to move nearly as much weight (I'm talking 100 lbs less). It always seems to push the bar away from my shins, and my quads don't seem to be getting involved to break the bar off the ground.

If this will cause long term issues, let me know. I'm not above a form reset.

As for the localized recovery issues, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't know if it was the stress of going back to work, or Christmas, or whatever. That seems to be exactly what it was as my "strength" seems to have returned. It just coincided with my switch to intermediate and nothing else seemed to be an apparent issue hence my dilemma. Hopefully things will begin moving upwards and I can hit that 1200 total I have my eye on . I'm even considering upping my calories even more, as according to Rip at 5' 10" I should weight 250 instead of the paltry 215 I am right now.

[Intricate35]

Side note on the stance. I will try a narrower stance, but my quads are very large near my groin, and, how shall I say this, smash certain anatomy parts in that position the closer my legs are.

Maybe this is just something I need to adapt to :P?