Phase 1 Novice, Squat is f'd

[meltman]

Hello Coaches

I'm from Germany, 32 years old and weigh about 220lbs. I started working out in the beginning of 2018, but started the program on february the 6th. I wanted to get my squat to 220lbs at the end of phase 1, but my form is getting really bad. Last Sunday i recorded myself for the first time, squatting 192 lbs, to ask for a form check on the starting strength subreddit. It showed, i didnt broke at the hips and the hips simultaneously, i did knees first. Next training day i felt shitty and had a bad workout, i tried to squat 203lbs and made it trough the first set of 5 rep with leaning to much forward, while trying to brake at hips and knees at the same time, and i had the concern, i could lost balance. I reduced the weigth to 196lbs and completed the remaining two sets, but with the same problem. The rest of the workout didnt went well, too. I think i shot myself in the foot with trying to get to 220lbs in the first three weeks, like written in “The first three questions”. I'm planning on find a weigth wich i can squat properly und use the “no bar, elbow on the thigh” wich you teach as warm up and indicator of the proper back angle. In your experience, wich working set weigth should i choose to build up upon and in wich steps should i increase the weigth each time from there on?

Please excuse my bad english. I hope my question isnt too dump. Bookwise i am at the chapter about the press and i didnt got my weigthlifting shoes yet, i'm training in Chucks. Thank you for this forum and taking the time to answer me.

Regards
meltman

[Steve Hill]

Well, you're English is WAY better than my German....

Setting aside technique issues, I think that the big mistake that most people make (who are not paying attention to what SS:BBT says, or listening to the podcasts, or reading this thread, for example) make is that they start off with too heavy a weight, and, as you say, also take big jumps - and work themselves very quickly into a stall. Patience is a virtue when running the NLP. You can push the limits if you have a *qualified* coach watching every single rep, or if you're really self-aware to know when you need to cut an increment. But if not, then caution is almost always better. Start at a lighter weight. Move to a smaller increment when it starts getting hard, etc.

To re-set, If you were my client, I'd take you back down to 155-185 (depending on BAR SPEED - seeing where the bar started to slow down and establishing that as a new starting weight) and then work back up from there, while nailing down your technique while the weight is light again.

The other component that you didn't speak to here is diet. Did you put on weight? How much?

[meltman]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer me, Steve, i really appreciate it!

I'm 5”9' high and gained 15lbs over the last 4 weeks. Allready started while beeing relatively obese, how much weigth would you recommend me to gain each month in the first 8 months? (I just took the 8 months from the podcasts with Leah Lutz and Crysal Riner)

In yesterday's workout i recorded myself on the last warm up sets for the squat and i saw my bar path is getting way off in the bottom position. Balance wasnt an issue this time, but i have problems on hitting proper depth. Maybe im trying with the leaning forward to much getting to depth, thinking, if the bar is lower, i must be below parallel. I never was athletic or did some sport, so i hope, my ancle flexibilty is a cause and the heel of an weigthlifting shoe could help. Hopefully my shoes will arrive on the first day of phase 2. Nevertheless i will focus on my form, when the shoes arrive and will reset, if needed.

I will follow your recommendation and increase the weigth in smaller increments and i will watch more coaching videos of novices on the exercises on the channel, and more form checks. I think, i will recognize myself in many form errors they correct and can learn from them.

By the way, i have no coach and work out in my homegym. Sadly the next weigthlifting club for the olympic movements and powerlifting is an hourride with the car away, but im planning to visit them once a month in the future.

Again, thank you very very much for taking the time for me and other novices in your free time, to help us out!

Kind regards
Tobi

[Alexander Dargatz]

Hi meltman,

if you're in Niedersachsen, or close from the south or east, we could meet and I could give you some feedback. Obviously, I'm no coach, far from it. But then, I've been doing SS for a while now and my online SSC is pretty happy with my form (I've been getting online coaching almost since they started). I've taught a few people how to squat, and as Rip said (no direct quote, just paraphrasing it), if there's no SSC to be had, someone who's gone through NLP is in a better position to give advice than most other persons. It was a good idea to video yourself, you should do that every set and evaluate the videos yourself directly after the set, before the next (in addition to put a selected few up for form checks).

Good luck!

[Steve Hill]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer me, Steve, i really appreciate it!

I'm 5”9' high and gained 15lbs over the last 4 weeks. Allready started while beeing relatively obese, how much weigth would you recommend me to gain each month in the first 8 months? (I just took the 8 months from the podcasts with Leah Lutz and Crysal Riner)

In yesterday's workout i recorded myself on the last warm up sets for the squat and i saw my bar path is getting way off in the bottom position. Balance wasnt an issue this time, but i have problems on hitting proper depth. Maybe im trying with the leaning forward to much getting to depth, thinking, if the bar is lower, i must be below parallel. I never was athletic or did some sport, so i hope, my ancle flexibilty is a cause and the heel of an weigthlifting shoe could help. Hopefully my shoes will arrive on the first day of phase 2. Nevertheless i will focus on my form, when the shoes arrive and will reset, if needed.

I will follow your recommendation and increase the weigth in smaller increments and i will watch more coaching videos of novices on the exercises on the channel, and more form checks. I think, i will recognize myself in many form errors they correct and can learn from them.

By the way, i have no coach and work out in my homegym. Sadly the next weigthlifting club for the olympic movements and powerlifting is an hourride with the car away, but im planning to visit them once a month in the future.

Again, thank you very very much for taking the time for me and other novices in your free time, to help us out!

Kind regards
Tobi

If you are obese, you need to be considering losing fat while you build muscle / strength. This is do-able, but careful attention must be paid to caloric intake and adequate protein intake. It is possible to both lose fat and gain weight, and I have no idea what your situation is currently. This is more appropriate for a coaching relationship, not a couple of traded messages in an internet forum.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you're talking about with "Phase 1 / Phase 2?" in any regards, you can post form checks in the Technique forum - there are many SSCs that contribute theri time there, or you can become a certified member if you want to post them here. We can't see you, so there is no way to tell if your assessment of your technique is accurate or not - I'd bet money on "not." No offense, but you probably don't have the experience necessary.

[Chris McBride]

Secondly, I'm not sure what you're talking about with "Phase 1 / Phase 2?"

I’ve seen this a lot on the forums, with some speculation by SSCs and others that these references to phases stem from non-SS sources of info about SS. There’s a “Programs” link the bottom of the front page that goes here: Starting Strength Training Programs

[Steve Hill]

Ah. I had forgotten about that article.

[Steve Hill]

Forgot to include a link in my first reply when I said "....or reading this thread."

Your top 3 points of advice

[meltman]

If you are obese, you need to be considering losing fat while you build muscle / strength. This is do-able, but careful attention must be paid to caloric intake and adequate protein intake. It is possible to both lose fat and gain weight, and I have no idea what your situation is currently. This is more appropriate for a coaching relationship, not a couple of traded messages in an internet forum.

In context of that Robert Santana wrote linear progression doesnt work with caloric deficit, should i aim to maintain my current weigth, or should i just ask him? When you say, this is not a suitable question for this Q&A, i would understand this.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you're talking about with "Phase 1 / Phase 2?" in any regards, you can post form checks in the Technique forum - there are many SSCs that contribute theri time there, or you can become a certified member if you want to post them here. We can't see you, so there is no way to tell if your assessment of your technique is accurate or not - I'd bet money on "not." No offense, but you probably don't have the experience necessary.

No offense taken, you are 100% right. Just got my shoes today, i will work on the form and post form check requests.

I’ve seen this a lot on the forums, with some speculation by SSCs and others that these references to phases stem from non-SS sources of info about SS. There’s a “Programs” link the bottom of the front page that goes here: Starting Strength Training Programs

Chris is right, this is what i have meant. After sunday this week, i will alternate deadlift and the power clean.

If you're in Niedersachsen, or close from the south or east, we could meet and I could give you some feedback.

Thank you very much for your offer! I live in NRW, Osnabrück is like 45 minutes away.

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions and offering help, i really appreciate it!

Kind regards
Tobi

[Steve Hill]

I am not aware of where Santana has said this. At some point, yes, someone on a caloric deficit will end their NLP, and that point will likely be (much?) sooner than someone who eats. But a slight caloric deficit, SLIGHT, resulting on SOME (most? Depends on how fat you are...) loss while building muscle mass is most definitely possible. After that, different programming is required in order to continue (slower) progress, while still losing fat. It’s a tough road, but possible.