Little confusion with the programs.

[SouthernLifter]

Hi. Here a rookie who came up with your books, after some time training on my own and instinctively. They are really very good and I have learned several things. But I have a question with respect to the programs for novices.

In the book "Starting Strength, Basic Barbell Training" they recommend the following program for beginners:

A:

Squat
Bench Press
Deadlift

B:

Squat
Press
Power Clean

In the book "Practical Programming for Strength Training" they recommend this other:

Monday: Squat, Bench press/press, Chin-ups. Wednesday: Squat, Press/Bench press. Friday: Squat, Bench press/Press, Pull-ups.

And in a post on this page about rookie programs you recommend a three-phase system:

Starting Strength Training Programs

My question is: Which one of these should a newbie take? I also clarify that I have been doing Phase 1 and my deadlift has improved a lot, but I can no longer sustain the rhythm of training it three times a week. Thank you very much.

[Karl Schudt]

There is no program in Practical Programming that neglects the deadlift.

You should quit deadlifting every session.

[SouthernLifter]

There is no program in Practical Programming that neglects the deadlift.

You should quit deadlifting every session.

Hi, Karl. So what program should I choose? What is the "ideal"? Thanks again.

[Karl Schudt]

You should do the one that doesn't have you deadlift every session. The ideal will depend on how your training is going, but generally we move to a program where you alternate the deadlift with power cleans or chinups. Just like it says in the link you provided.

So, for example, you do:

A: Squat 3x5, Press 3x5, Deadlift 1x5
B: Squat 3x5, Bench 3x5, Power cleans 5x3.

Do this for a while.

[SouthernLifter]

You should do the one that doesn't have you deadlift every session. The ideal will depend on how your training is going, but generally we move to a program where you alternate the deadlift with power cleans or chinups. Just like it says in the link you provided.

So, for example, you do:

A: Squat 3x5, Press 3x5, Deadlift 1x5
B: Squat 3x5, Bench 3x5, Power cleans 5x3.

Do this for a while.

I

Great, Karl. I think I took the books too literally. I'll do it like that. Excuse my bad English. Thank you!!

[SouthernLifter]

You should do the one that doesn't have you deadlift every session. The ideal will depend on how your training is going, but generally we move to a program where you alternate the deadlift with power cleans or chinups. Just like it says in the link you provided.

So, for example, you do:

A: Squat 3x5, Press 3x5, Deadlift 1x5
B: Squat 3x5, Bench 3x5, Power cleans 5x3.

Do this for a while.

Excellent. Is it worth adding the chin ups and pull ups in some day?

[Karl Schudt]

Yes. You can do them on the day you don't deadlift. Chinups are very useful.

[Michael Wolf]

SouthernLifter - your confusion is very common, so don't beat yourself up over it. As a lifter trains over time, the programming he uses to get stronger goes from simple/general/basic to more complex/specific/personalized. But the key is to keep it simple, general, and basic during the novice phase, as laid out in the books you've enjoyed. However even during that phase, there is just a little bit of inherent complexity and personalization that must be done, albeit at a very low level. As Karl pointed out, you can't deadlift every workout and add weight for very long - it fatigues the low back too much and affects the performance of the other lifts on the subsequent workouts too. Soon, smaller jumps ("microloading") may become necessary in the press and bench. Later on, you'll need a lighter squat day in the middle of the week, Weds, to allow you to continue to add weight twice a week, Mon and Fri.

While these are all small levels of personalization, they're part of the LP process. Things get more complex once you're done with the LP, but there's some inherent changes, based on judgement calls, that a book simply can't tell you exactly when to make. This is where a coach with lots of experience coaching the SS methods becomes super useful.

So the good news is, you've come to the right place.

If you can do the cleans, alternate them with deadlifts. If not, put chin-ups in that slot instead. I've found this alternating schedule to work well for roughly 6-8 weeks on average. That can vary, so don't take it as gospel, but if you're having trouble with it after 2 weeks, you probably need to look at The First Three Questions.

[Karl Schudt]

Hey Southernlifter--apologies that I was a little brusque in my first response. I didn't realize that there was a language issue, and should have been more helpful. Sorry!

You are in the right place!

[Eric Schexnayder]

Excellent. Is it worth adding the chin ups and pull ups in some day?

Just make sure you get your Deadlift and Clean up first, meaning if you can still make 5 lbs jumps each time you alternate, keep going. Do chins in addition to these if you can stand the extra work, i.e., if it doesn't interfere with recovery. Substitute the chins in the "Advanced Novice" phase as a way to give more rest time between really heavy deadlifts and cleans later in the program.

I'm on my second LP (last one ended early after the third kid kept me from getting adequate sleep for recovery). During the first I introduced chins way too early and wasn't making the progress on the deadlift that I should have. I think I was squatting about 40 lbs more than I could deadlift at that time.