Reply With QuoteA lot of people (mostly those who learned SS from BBing.com) add in Dips and Chins/PullUps.Originally Posted by Danish Viking
As for the rows, I'm curious to that too.
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I probably wasnt very clear, but that's what I mean - you seem to be doing:
A: Squat, Bench, Deadlift, ROWS+DIPS
B: Squat, Press, Power Clean, CHINS
The stuff in capitals is something you've added, and I was just wondering why.
Member
A lot of people (mostly those who learned SS from BBing.com) add in Dips and Chins/PullUps.
As for the rows, I'm curious to that too.
Member
First of all, don't take this as arrogance, 'cause it's not. Just some background so that you can understand my reasoning on why I have structured my Starting Strength program the way that I have.
I didn't learn Starting Strength on BB.com. But it was a cool place to hang out and keep a journal back then.
I originally learned about 5x5 style training 32 years ago in high school football off-season. I had a coach named Wayne Smith that was a disciple of Bill Starr's. He was also a powerlifter and was the Arkansas state champion in the 181's for at least 15 years. I have had a copy of The Strongest Shall Survive for over 30 years.
I have a first printing of the 1st Edition of Starting Strength. I also have the 2nd Edition and will get the 3rd when it comes out. I have both editions of Practical Programming, as well.
My goal in lifting is to have functional strength, stay in shape, and just be strong.
The way that I see it your upper body works in six directions. I want to have functional, balanced strength in all six directions. If you do not train something you will not be good at it.
The most important consideration is to select exercises that have functional application to the training objective. Practical Programming, 2nd Ed. p84.
Push up = Press.
Push out = Bench.
Push down = Dips.
Pull up = Dead lifts & Power Cleans. No, I am not talking about arm pulling the bar.
Pull in = Barbell Rows from the floor.
Pull Down = Chinups/Pull ups.
Once the basic exercises have been mastered, accessory exercises can be added into training. Practical Programming, 2nd Ed., p101.
This isn't my first time running Starting Strength. I have had two runs on it before. The first time I made it 54 workouts. The second time I made it 64 workouts. I have had my training interupted by some serious injuries and had to start over before. This is just the latest time.
According to the Basic Strength Standards chart, on squat, bench, and deadlift my lifts have previously been at the Advanced level when I was younger. My lifts have previously been up to the Intermediate and Advanced level since I have been a Master's lifter (over 40). That's not just me saying it, I have achieved lifts at those levels in both Open and Master's classes at AAU sanctioned unequipped powerlifting meets. I am not at those levels now, but I do intend to get back up to there. I am far from setting any PR's, even at the Master's level.
I have been doing the basic exercises for long enough that I think I can safely add in some accessory exercises.
Power Cleans and Presses are my worst lifts. My Power Clean is probably limited more by technique problems than strength. I continue to work on improving my technique in the Power Clean.
If you can't do very many chin-ups, your press and bench press will increase as you get stronger on this very important exercise. Starting Strength, 2nd Ed., p253.
I want to get stronger on the Press so I am doing Chin-ups.
The classic barbell row is a good builder of back strength when done properly, starting each rep off of the floor like a deadlift and finishing each rep touching the abs (they are not, however, not a substitute for power cleans. Practical Programming, 2nd Ed., p101.
I want to have good back strength and balanced strength in my shoulders, so I do rows.
I have found that doing dips help my shoulders and my bench.
Workouts should consist of three to five exercises, appropriately selected from the template groups. Practical Programming, 2nd Ed., p85.
I selected exercises and structured my Starting Strength program to have two whole body workouts, one with five exercises and one with four exercises, that support my objective. In my previous training I have found this template works well for me.
As I said above I have had some serious injuries and surgeries that I have had to recover from. These include a left shoulder reconstruction, a shattered lower right leg and ankle reconstruction, having the middle finger of my right, dominant, hand cut off and reattached, a crush fracture of my right forearm and elbow, being rear-ended in an automoblie accident that messed up my pelvis and lower back, and I still have a bullet in my right lower chest.
If someone wants to tell me YDNDTP, I am OK with that. I'll just keep lifting and working my way back up. It's not my first rodeo.
Member
Thursday, 16 September 2010
Starting Strength Workout # 17
BW = 225
Squat
45 x 5
45 x 5
95 x 5
135 x 3
185 x 2
225 x 1
245 x 5
245 x 5
245 x 5
Bench
45 x 5
95 x 5
135 x 3
155 x 1
175 x 1
185 x 5
185 x 5
185 x 5
Deadlift
135 x 5
185 x 2
225 x 1
275 x 5
Rows
45 x 5
140 x 5
140 x 5
140 x 5
Dips
BW x 7
BW x 6
BW x 5
Member
Wow, that was quite an informative post, thanks
Member
When you get the book (WYGTB), you'll read what Rip says about this.
Member
Jeez. Care to tell the story?
Member
Just to clarify: I wasn't trying to be an SS-nazi, I was genuinely interested as I know that you (like me) are quite well-versed in and convinced by the Starr stuff as well as the Rip things. I also know that you made inspiring progress using this template last time through, hence the curiousity to the "why".
Cool backstory - I wish I'd had that sort of coaching at that point in my life. And about injuries I feel you, I've only had two very debilitating ones so far.
Interesting point about pushing/pulling down/forward/up, hadn't thought of it that way.
Member
I've read quite a few of Rip's opinions:
"Fuck barbell rows" - no 1
"Barbell rows are a useful assistance exercise, but not a clean replacement one" - no 2
Member
Wow, that was quite an informative post, thanks
You're quite welcome.
Well, I was born a poor, white child in New Orleans, Louisiana.... :-)
Not really much of a story. I'm 46 years old, spent 21 years in the Army and have gotten hurt a bunch of times over the years.
Oh, I didn't take it as you being an SS-nazi at all. I am always open to questions, comments, criticism, and feedback. It makes me think and learn, or at least clarify my point/position, and sometimes change my mind.
Yea, getting hurt sucks, I'm against it.
On the pushing and pulling, it just seems to make sense to me.
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