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  1. #21
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    @carnivroar: Low carbing lost me 40 lb of flab and gave me the energy to start seriously exercising. Everyone responds differently. Not sure who JP is. Paleo eating transformed my health well beyond weight loss, you have no idea, and I'm highly unlikely to be convinced otherwise by a random internet post. Thanks though! BTW I'm not all that low carb anymore, today I had a banana, drank some milk, ate some sweet potatoes. I don't do added sugar though.

    Basically if the choice is to raise my squat 50 lb in a month plus gain 4 lb of lard, or raise my squat 30 lb in a month and gain 1 lb of lard, I'll take the second option and if that's NDTFP that's fine. I'm old enough to not be in a hurry.

    @Mulgere: Bring it on! End of January, highest total Squat, Dead, cleans, bench, press, just the last succesful 5-rep #s added up.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    @carnivroar: Low carbing lost me 40 lb of flab and gave me the energy to start seriously exercising. Everyone responds differently. Not sure who JP is. Paleo eating transformed my health well beyond weight loss, you have no idea, and I'm highly unlikely to be convinced otherwise by a random internet post. Thanks though! BTW I'm not all that low carb anymore, today I had a banana, drank some milk, ate some sweet potatoes. I don't do added sugar though.

    Basically if the choice is to raise my squat 50 lb in a month plus gain 4 lb of lard, or raise my squat 30 lb in a month and gain 1 lb of lard, I'll take the second option and if that's NDTFP that's fine. I'm old enough to not be in a hurry.
    Yeah... but it's not doing your strength any good.

    And you paleos, aren't ya'll supposed to not care about "gaining 4 lbs of lard"? Humans were made to carry a certain amount of fat. That creates an anabolic environment.

    Besides, carbs don't make you fat. I'm not advising you go off paleo, just eat more carbs for energy and recovery, some 200+ grams.

    Take this from someone who has been Paleo (or rather Primal) for 1 whole year.

  3. #23
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    I've been doing it for almost a year, too. Look dude you are not going to convince me to get frickin fat. None of the things I plan to use this new strength for will be well-served by a brand new spare tire which I just barely lost. Racquetball. Snow sports. Rock climbing. Swimming. If my end goal were to be a bouncer or a D-lineman it would be different wouldn't it.

    I used to need a lot more carbs than I do now, I'm pretty fat-adapted and don't notice much difference anymore in energy levels eating pure meat or meat + carb. But I have been eating more especially on workout days. I have a pint of milk-based PWO shake and other stuff. I used to eat in the normal way and I had 1000% less energy. Look, trust me, I know more about my body than you do but thanks for the input.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    @carnivroar: Low carbing lost me 40 lb of flab and gave me the energy to start seriously exercising. Everyone responds differently. Not sure who JP is.
    JP is Johnny Pain, a.k.a. John Sheaffer of Greyskull Barbell, and seems to be the favorite go-to consultant hereabouts for optimizing muscle gain and fat loss. If you can't listen to experts, though, it's your loss.


    Basically if the choice is to raise my squat 50 lb in a month plus gain 4 lb of lard, or raise my squat 30 lb in a month and gain 1 lb of lard, I'll take the second option and if that's NDTFP that's fine. I'm old enough to not be in a hurry.
    Because of some real-world interruptions I'm not sure of my own case yet, but the most common report from JP's clients is that they lost fat while gaining strength faster. What he recommends is only paleo-ish in the afternoon, however.

    @Mulgere: Bring it on! End of January, highest total Squat, Dead, cleans, bench, press, just the last succesful 5-rep #s added up.
    I don't have anywhere I can drop a bar, so I don't really do cleans (I do one set as part of my Deadlift warm-up). The other four are the mainstay of my program, though. What do you mean "the last successful 5-rep #'s? Last workout where the move was done, not PR? Resets would screw that up, though otherwise my latest workout is usually where my PRs are because I'm still on linear progression.

    In case of a tie, contest rules where the lighter bodyweight breaks the tie?

    If I wasn't too lazy to actually measure %BF I'd say we could compete on who can lower their %BF the most as well, since I'm adding more cardio to optimize that aspect. I hope I don't overdo it and cut into my lifts (which is why I didn't have it added in before).

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    @Mulgere: Bring it on! End of January, highest total Squat, Dead, cleans, bench, press, just the last succesful 5-rep #s added up.
    I'll take you up on that challenge.

  6. #26
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    Not to hijack the thread, but I don't understand all the animosity towards a Paleo-ish, low carb approach... It is definitely the best way to stay healthy and lean in the long term... Go for it tfrany, it's worked great for me and everyone in my family/extended family who's tried it...

    I will say that for growth, higher carb is beneficial. The excess fat doesn't make an anabolic environment, it just shows that there is one present because of the anabolic qualities of insulin. Non-paleo sources of carbohydrates are useful to those that can benefit from them, but if it results in too much water retention, inflammation or excess fat gain, then get your excess carbs from potatoes and milk. Good luck with your progress, man, I applaud you for putting in the effort and accepting that certain goals are more important to you and that you accept that it's not optimal; it's your own decision.

    Good luck, stick with it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric K View Post
    Not to hijack the thread, but I don't understand all the animosity towards a Paleo-ish, low carb approach...
    No animosity here. It's definitely to my advantage that he stick with it. In fact, I want you to talk him out of eating the carbs he's started sneaking, please. :-)

    As for others, the board is named "Starting Strength," not "Starting Paleo" or anything else, and the people who know the most about strength don't seem to regard Paleo as a good strength-building diet. It might be good for anything else, but the board is about one thing, yes? What did you expect to be advocated on a board named "Starting Strength," especially since one of the ways people get told YNDTP is because they don't eat to support LP.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by william_morris217 View Post
    I'll take you up on that challenge.
    Hey, I checked your log, and you're a ringer. :-)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgere Hircum View Post
    No animosity here. It's definitely to my advantage that he stick with it. In fact, I want you to talk him out of eating the carbs he's started sneaking, please. :-)

    As for others, the board is named "Starting Strength," not "Starting Paleo" or anything else, and the people who know the most about strength don't seem to regard Paleo as a good strength-building diet. It might be good for anything else, but the board is about one thing, yes? What did you expect to be advocated on a board named "Starting Strength," especially since one of the ways people get told YNDTP is because they don't eat to support LP.
    It's tfarny's thread, so I'll just leave it at the fact that the "program" calls for an excess of calories and non-paleo sources are cheap and carb sources are easy to binge on. However, "the program" also recommends cleaning up the carbs if you start putting on too much fat which is entirely possible. "Cleaning up" refers to a bigger emphasis on vegetables; plenty of successful proponents of strength training have advocated a "paleo" approach for avoiding excess fat and aiding recovery, whether they call it that or not, including Rip and John Welbourne. Besides, my point was that he's accepted the fact that it may blunt his progress for him to maintain some leanness so it doesn't put him in the same category as idiots who refuse to gain weight yet complain about stalling out. And aside from the "cheap" argument, I find it hard to believe that bread and pasta would be a better way to binge on carbs than would potatoes and potato products.

  10. #30
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    OK for fuck's sake this is my workout log so all of you can fuck off if you don't like what I eat. Damn. I didn't ask for advice or criticism on the diet. I am here to log my strength workouts, and if Rip wants to ban me for not doing GOMAD he can go ahead. I'm not asking for your permission and I'm not a fucking teenager, and I've been doing self experimentation and reading the science for myself for almost a year.
    Gluten makes my joints hurt, gives me horrible gastro problems, headaches, and insomnia plus makes me even more of an asshole. Eating paleo makes me shit rainbows and light by comparison, it has transformed my health.
    I have explicitly stated my goals and said what my parameters are - that I eat paleo, I'm not going to do more than a moderate caloric excess, and my strength goals are modest compared to a lot of you (squat 225-250), because I want to be a light and fast (and more powerful) racquetball player, snowboarder, and ass kicker. 39 yo, desk job, my goals and yours are different, and so I'm going to eat a bit less, and I know that it'll take me a bit longer. Get the fuck over it! I said that clearly in post #1.

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